Movable Tires

[Fourwinds]

I was thinking about last night's racing and looking at this thread ... There is a way to make the tires at the tracks side 'movable' now ... (since 1250) ... What are peoples opinions on this so that we might get less 'air time' when cars hit them if they slide?

 

The tires could be made heavy so that there would be a large impact when hitting them .. just not like hitting a brick wall!

 

Fourwinds

 

Ps: I am not sure how much effort it would be to update the existing Ipswich / Belle Vue tracks with movable tires.

[splinter]

I personally would love to see movable tyres for the realism effect, but not sure if it would improve anything for on-line racing. I'm also sure most 'Racers' on here would say no, due to them being on the track/racing line after a couple of hard hits and getting in the way! Perhaps they could be "auto-repositioned" once they moved so far from they're original position! If not they're cud be "guides" whuch stop the tyres moving onto the track on the corners.

 

On this similar subject. I would love to see an old skool Brafield/Northampton with those bouncing Beer Barrels they used to have!!

[freew67]

 

 

The tires could be made heavy so that there would be a large impact when hitting them .. just not like hitting a brick wall!

 

 

Ps: I am not sure how much effort it would be to update the existing Ipswich / Belle Vue tracks with movable tires.

 

The tires will not cause damage, nor will the car react to you hitting them. So we put them as is. No tires, then people like Hutch will cut each corner to take someone out Its been a while since I tested, but when 1250 came out, Cow and I were attempting to get haybales to work. They would move, but thats about it. We did everything that Pits post said, with 0 luck, we thought hell yeah, something to slow the cars down...umm hey its not working?!?!?!? But hey, I could be wrong, been proven wrong before and this is one thing I would love to be proven wrong on!!!

 

There isnt any way to auto-repo them either. I think once you go to the next session they will be put back, but thats about it.

 

[Fourwinds]

 

 

The tires could be made heavy so that there would be a large impact when hitting them .. just not like hitting a brick wall!

 

 

Ps: I am not sure how much effort it would be to update the existing Ipswich / Belle Vue tracks with movable tires.

 

The tires will not cause damage, nor will the car react to you hitting them. So we put them as is. No tires, then people like Hutch will cut each corner to take someone out Its been a while since I tested, but when 1250 came out, Cow and I were attempting to get haybales to work. They would move, but thats about it. We did everything that Pits post said, with 0 luck, we thought hell yeah, something to slow the cars down...umm hey its not working?!?!?!? But hey, I could be wrong, been proven wrong before and this is one thing I would love to be proven wrong on!!!

 

There isnt any way to auto-repo them either. I think once you go to the next session they will be put back, but thats about it.

 

Thanks for the update ... I was not really thinking about them doing damage ... I just thought to enable a little more realism .... I find the F1 cars cartwheeling through the sky by hitting the tires a little off putting and would prefer the tires to move .. I can understand the concern about people cutting the corners ...

 

[freew67]

Yeah the mod team talked about this before we released the track. One of them things we cant win. Moveable tires, car dont go 400 feet in the air (shouldnt be hitting them anyways ) but that allows people to cut the corner. You give people them the option, they will do it. We will always shoot for realism, but also go after whats best to race online. If you want to blame someone, blame Danskin, it was all his idea.

[Fourwinds]

Yeah the mod team talked about this before we released the track. One of them things we cant win. Moveable tires, car dont go 400 feet in the air (shouldnt be hitting them anyways ) but that allows people to cut the corner. You give people them the option, they will do it. We will always shoot for realism, but also go after whats best to race online. If you want to blame someone, blame Danskin, it was all his idea.

 

hehe ... I don't blame anyones ... was just an observation based on what I saw and that I saw the thread today ... I did not know if you have looked into it ...

 

The realism part comes from the fact you did so well on Belle Vue (including those 1 way gates) and that I was wondering which parts of realism are wanting to be included ...

[splinter]

I think it's spot on, Ipswich and Birmingham for example. I prefer the realism aspect, rather than have a daft unrealistic wall or something to totally stop people from corner cutting. In Heat it was decided for example to slow u down on the grass (invisible gravel traps) to prevent corner cutting and across the middle of the track, I personally hated that and do not think its the way to go with any rfactor track. Realism should be key priority for rfactor, followed by realistic ways of preventing cheating!

 

In real BriSCA's they sometimes have to cut across corners, not to gain advantage, but to avoid a track collision/blockage, for example at Sheffield and Belle Vue, that's part of what makes it exciting to watch. If this can happen in rfactor it will make it the more exciting & realistic to the real sport.

[Fourwinds]

I think it's spot on, Ipswich and Birmingham for example. I prefer the realism aspect, rather than have a daft unrealistic wall or something to totally stop people from corner cutting. In Heat it was decided for example to slow u down on the grass (invisible gravel traps) to prevent corner cutting and across the middle of the track, I personally hated that and do not think its the way to go with any rfactor track. Realism should be key priority for rfactor, followed by realistic ways of preventing cheating!

 

In real BriSCA's they sometimes have to cut across corners, not to gain advantage, but to avoid a track collision/blockage, for example at Sheffield and Belle Vue, that's part of what makes it exciting to watch. If this can happen in rfactor it will make it the more exciting & realistic to the real sport.

 

If the tires become movable and people started cutting the corners majorly could they not be reprimanded like in BriSCA today ? There is already a mechanism for giving people warnings in UK dirt.

 

(edit: too many 'already's in one sentence)

Edited October 8, 2007 by Fourwinds

[freew67]

The tracks are a group effort, I just happen to post the most about them We TRY to add as much realism as possible. We also, learn as we go. Hence why Belle and Birm are V0.9. Early Ips did have the pits behind the main grandstand, thats where we learned about the 2 sided gate and how the AI didnt like to play nice. Another example, how Andy showed us we can add grooves on a track by track basis. BUT, untill you close the game, it will use that groove for everything you run. We made one for Belle, but the red groove looked funny at Birm, so we didnt add it. That why I said, Im sure someone will prove me wrong on the moveable tires, and please do it soon. Im finishing up Standlake and theres herds of tires to hit there

[Fourwinds]

The tracks are a group effort, I just happen to post the most about them We TRY to add as much realism as possible. We also, learn as we go. Hence why Belle and Birm are V0.9. Early Ips did have the pits behind the main grandstand, thats where we learned about the 2 sided gate and how the AI didnt like to play nice. Another example, how Andy showed us we can add grooves on a track by track basis. BUT, untill you close the game, it will use that groove for everything you run. We made one for Belle, but the red groove looked funny at Birm, so we didnt add it. That why I said, Im sure someone will prove me wrong on the moveable tires, and please do it soon. Im finishing up Standlake and theres herds of tires to hit there

 

With a quick play around ... I have gotten tires that move and cause damage to the cars ... They do slow the cars down VERY quickly and dramatically and do move onto the track ... The only problem I have at this point is that they disappear below the ground when they stop moving

[freew67]

Could you copy and paste what you put in the scn file?

Edited October 8, 2007 by freew67

[Fourwinds]

Could you copy and paste what you put in the scn file?

 

Sure .. there is a change both the the .scn and to the .gdb:

 

SCN:

 

Instance=cone_largetire

{

Moveable=True visgroups=(32)

MeshFile=largetire.gmt CollTarget=true HATTarget=false ShadowCaster=(Dynamic, Solid, 32, 32)

}

Instance=cone_largetire01

{

Moveable=True visgroups=(32)

MeshFile=largetire01.gmt CollTarget=true HATTarget=false ShadowCaster=(Dynamic, Solid, 32, 32)

}

 

.... And so on upto 09

 

GDB:

 

This I put after the 'scoreboard' section:

// If you simply want to increase the mass of an object, we'd recommend increasing all the

// parameters except friction by the same proportion (e.g. if you want to double the mass,

// also double the inertia values and the spring and damper).

//

// <instance> = ( <mass>, <inertia x>, <inertia y>, <inertia z>, <spring>, <damper>, <friction> )

// cone_largetire = ( 1.2, 0.5, 0.1, 0.5, 400.0, 40.0, 0.80 )

cone_largetire = ( 2400.00, 800.00, 800.00, 2400.00, 32000.00 32000.00 1.0 )

cone_largetire01 = ( 2400.00, 800.00, 800.00, 2400.00, 32000.00 32000.00 1.0 )

cone_largetire02 = ( 2400.00, 800.00, 800.00, 2400.00, 32000.00 32000.00 1.0 )

 

 

It appears that the only way to make the tires 'actually' moveable would be to prefix the name with either: cone, post, sign, wheel, wing or part ...

 

The default information for each is :

 

o CONE = ( 2.5, 0.25, 0.20, 0.25, 1425.6, 72.0, 0.80 )

o POST = ( 1.2, 0.5, 0.1, 0.5, 400.0, 40.0, 0.80 )

o SIGN = ( 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 6.0, 1024.0, 44.8, 0.70 ) // default inertia parameters for signs are actually calculated based on geometry

o WHEEL = ( 15.0, 0.7, 0.5, 0.5, 5625.0, 45.0, 1.0 )

o WING = ( 10.0, 1.0, 0.5, 1.5, 3600.0, 60.0, 0.60 )

o PART = ( 10.0, 1.0, 0.5, 1.5, 3600.0, 60.0, 0.60 )

 

I have included the main .scn and .gdb that I have modified slightly from standard to modify all tires ...

 

[attachmentid=19960]

Ipswichdirt.zip

[freew67]

Yeah, I did one at Standlake, and the tire just goes straight thru the track. We didnt have that problem before.... Im sure we used dif numbers, but I couldnt even get damage. If you have any luck, shoot me a pm, or hit me up on msn please.

[Fourwinds]

Yeah, I did one at Standlake, and the tire just goes straight thru the track. We didnt have that problem before.... Im sure we used dif numbers, but I couldnt even get damage. If you have any luck, shoot me a pm, or hit me up on msn please.

 

I will do ... I'll try a few things over the next couple of days and see if I can get them to stay on top of the track

 

 

[splinter]

Something like this would be good

 

 

(but with more friction)