The missing drivers....

[wee dode]

to answer some of your questions mav...

 

1) some of us go into practice from just before 7pm on race nights when the meeting starts at 8.30 to get plenty of practice at the track and to get used to the car, as i said thats how some of us are better than others

2) i dont think its fair to scrap it, not sure how it was worked out as some of the drivers arent even top but thats just my opinion, the blue and red race is a good idea, gives the blue and red grade a chance to race without the superstars (expect me, but im not in the champions league so get to race it) and the whites and yellows give them a good few laps in race conditions to warm up without having to worry about blues, reds etc

3) Ive used it for bangers (ventrilo) and for f1's and f2's aswell as other formulas but i think it makes the racing more enjoyable and can ask admin questions easier if they are in there etc. Ive been in teamspeak with quite alot of drivers over while racing and its more of a laugh than anything, usually end up just ripping each other to shreads lol

4) I dont think its fair on the drivers since to find out the pace of the superstars etc earlier helps you get a setup sorted, would hate to be a white or yellow thinking your on the pace then get in the server 5minutes before the start to find your way off, plus if you do that then you cant get setup help from the top lads?!

5) drumbstick done one ages ago, but i dont mind if drumb is up for it sitting doing a right up for f2's and how they work if someone else wants to do one for f1's etc? im willing to help with that.

6) Also seen newbies who wipe people out etc for example waqar does sometimes but is learning and gaining a bit of respect since he is getting better and apologizing for wiping people out or warping etc. We may have a go at getting wiped out but all it takes a simple sorry and abuse wont be said?

7) If people swear take a screenshot and send it in and get them banned, simple as! some people get away with it but its how you see it yourself, some of it is just banter some of it just red mist but dont mean its correct to swear in the server

8) Time between races should be fixed but not allowing people to practice?! thats just plain stupid!! so if i or a newbie want to change something on the setup we aint allowed to go have a couple of laps?! seems you want to help the newbies then turn round and screw them over at the same time! Fair enough having banter is all well and good but ruining practice time is stupid, end of!!

 

Like i said ive helped people before, helped si#31 and advised him on a decent steering well to get, its about £50 off ebay and i use mine and its perfect for starting up and using for ages!

 

Waqar if you need help with setups etc. just feel free to pm me mate and mav im not having a go at you, just expressing my opinion as a driver on ukdirt.

[Mav]

As I said to Drum, if its constructive then I don't mind at all - and what you have said is another point of view and like so many you either agree or disagree - some points you have said I am mulling over, and some I don't agree with but its all about opinions and turning them into ideas if they are worth doing so.

 

One point I would like to make on what you have said is that about no practice in meetings. If you want a mod that is true to life then practice during a meeting is a definate NO. Practice should be before and after not during, you race with what you have else what was the point of practicing? Drivers goto Birmingham or Northampton during the week to setup cars as they cannot do it during the meeting - they race with what they have. Thus why I suggest a pre-meeting controlled practice session. I do not want to know what the superstars can do, I want to know what my grade and lower can do as thats who I am technically racing against. Getting superstar times will come in time but not when you start. My lad knows that if he is under one second slower than Tom, he has a chance of staying ahead, but whats the point of knowing that if he is half a second slower than the other whites or yellows?? Pre-meeting practice in my eyes isn't for obtaining setup advice, its for honing in on the track that you are about to race, hopefully getting drivers comfortable with what they have. Setup advice comes in free practice during the week or the hour or so prior to the meeting. Thats how I think anyway!

 

Again its not a perfect solution, it maybe an idea, it maybe utter tripe. To me the meeting is a focal point of what UK Dirt do, and if people are whizzing about all over the place it just seems unstructured to me and not organised.

 

 

[drumbstick]

You can set the amount of time after a warm-up session has finished before it goes it goes to a race(nobody can enter the track), I wonder if having say a 3 minute warm-up session before a race and if it then takes longer than that before we switch to race there is no more practice.

 

Could be a good way of getting people to chat rather than lap.

[wee dode]

yeah theres being realistic and theres being stupid if you ask me, but i usually like the chance to have a drink, go to the loo or that inbetween races but think giving people the chance to make changes and have a few laps does benefit people. When making mods etc you want them to be realistic but enjoyable aswell since at the end of the day its a league you race for fun!

 

But being in the server together allows people to ask for setup help if they wish and watch people to try learn a line to drive, braking points etc to try help them as much as they can.

[Mav]

You can set the amount of time after a warm-up session has finished before it goes it goes to a race(nobody can enter the track), I wonder if having say a 3 minute warm-up session before a race and if it then takes longer than that before we switch to race there is no more practice.

 

Could be a good way of getting people to chat rather than lap.

 

The thing that struck me, giving rise to me questioning this ie no racing during the 3 minutes etc was when I was Race Manager for the F2 British Championship last year.

I felt that no-one was taking any notice of what I posted up with in race chat with regards to the meeting - calling grids etc. It was hard work, let alone racing too.

People just raced round and waited until the server was set to race, then asked questions!

 

New drivers need to see clear instructions and not be distracted by drivers screaming round the pits or out on track etc. They wouldn't know what they could or couldn't do. But if everyone is doing the same ie Nothing! then your attention then is on the Race Manager or Steward.

[wee dode]

that sounds like a sensible idea, have 3 or 4 minutes of practice then get everyone to shut up and get on with the next race and listen to the rm's instructions

[Spike]

being rm in f1 and f2s

 

i like to point out i like practice done before meeting really but some do i dont mind . There is a break between races for me to post up grid or heats up or wait for someone you exited the server so they rejoin.

I luv to have bigger grids run full meeting again as r factor far easier than heat to rm i my view.

 

i like to meeting to run for 11/2 hrs really if we get the cars but when 20 cars it is over in a hour what is a shame .

f1 have the white yellow , blues and reds and premier league to add to the races over the night .

 

i hope that clear it up from a RM point off view .

 

 

i alway happy to help people out big al, rudeboy ,pusher from memory and im not the best but online racing is value for money.

 

 

[Matty300]

1) some of us go into practice from just before 7pm on race nights when the meeting starts at 8.30 to get plenty of practice at the track and to get used to the car, as i said thats how some of us are better than others

 

Just to clarify as Im confused re.the points made on practice by mav & dode. Is it any different practicing in the server to practicing offline? I never really practice online before a meeting , I just check I can get in the server as I got my fingers burned once by not having the correct skinpacks installed & ended up missing 2 heats! Can't you equally get used to the car offline in the week preceding a meeting? Or is tyre wear set differently in server? Or do you mean battling against real drivers rather than the Mod's AI? cheers

[Mav]

All my quotes reflect practicing online.

 

My personal experience is that practicing offline is no use unless you have every setting the same on your pc as on the server. I have practiced offline only to find that my game aided me but this aid was switched off online.

Also I found that I was at least 1 second slower online if I used a setup that I had practiced offline. Therefore I alway set my car up online in the server, and found the best time to do it was leading upto the meeting.

Several things didn't help tho. Things like Harmen burying you every lap, or someone else squabbling in front of you, or you get wiped out on track by someone leaving the pits!! lol

That way I was ready for the meeting.

 

If I was able to practice between races to test other things I then confused myself as to which was better - and as I couldn't do 16 laps with the new tweak to see how it affected me, I just made do with what I had prior to the meeting - just like in real life

[wee dode]

being honest I find it better to practice in server personally, since can set up the car and sometimes I set a car up almost a week before, for the likes of cowdie ive spent a good couple of hours trying to get the car set up perfect, mostly due to the fact its one of the hardest tracks to set up for and i love the place! also like to see how my lap times are compared to everyone else and see what the setup is like in traffic, ive had a good setup offline before and went into server and soon as i get punted on or go wide its terrible. Plus as you said matty can check to see if you get any errors or that, this is the reason i got in round about 7pm so if i have any errors gives me a while to sort them and get practice before the meeting.

[matthew413]

Some people worry waaay too much about setups and lap times and don't enjoy the game because of it. Just use the default setup, move the brake bias backwards or forwards a bit depending on how much you want to slide under braking then forget about it.

 

How anyone can spend hours and hours practicing offline is beyond me. I'd get bored in minutes. What's the point? Find someone else who wants to practice, start a server yourself, get in there with them and practice racing, not searching for that 0.010 faster lap.

 

I don't want a meeting to last three hours cos everyone's chatting away, 90 minutes is plenty long enough. If you want more of a community feel, join the voice chat thing, get people's MSN addresses, PM them in IRC etc. Lots of opportunities.

[pete904]

This is classic, the clique / elite can't figure out between themselves why turnouts are poor

 

And its funny how the top F2 point scorers use their own private teamspeak "We don't team race honest gov"

 

Countdown to admin deleting so as to avoid a discussion.....

 

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Edited April 20, 2011 by pete904

[ford688]

if ukdirt mod admin wherent up each others ring things might be diffrent

 

a lad that raced ere got swore at by an admin he complained and the results was it wasnt ment to anyone thought he swore its really a ban but rules dont get followed in this league cause its full of tards

[pete904]

Another point [that may stand a better chance of NOT being deleted ad brushed under the carpet] is that "Sim" racing has evolved and UKDirt hasn't. Pads/keyboard and swingman in 2011... come on now who wants to spend money on a wheel / sim-rig to take it serious is someone along side will be racing on a laptop keyboard

 

The numbers speak for themselves.

[LeeK39]

This is classic, the clique / elite can't figure out between themselves why turnouts are poor

 

And its funny how the top F2 point scorers use their own private teamspeak "We don't team race honest gov"

 

Countdown to admin deleting so as to avoid a discussion.....

 

5.....

 

4.....

 

3.....

 

2.....

 

 

Id guess you've raced this season to know that they are team racing then yeah. I mean we see Tom, Dode, Mike, Drumb, Robin, Aub knocking the crap out of each other pretty much every race. They are at the top of the points because they are consistently quicker through the traffic then the lower graders are and thats what I think makes the big difference, you can either control the contact or you cant. But you would know this as you've raced F2s how many times this season in UKDirt.....

 

 

Also I have Drumbs setup guide somewhere Ill dig it out and get it added somewhere whether it be on the site on forum as soon as I can find it.

[pete904]

This is classic, the clique / elite can't figure out between themselves why turnouts are poor

 

And its funny how the top F2 point scorers use their own private teamspeak "We don't team race honest gov"

 

Countdown to admin deleting so as to avoid a discussion.....

 

5.....

 

4.....

 

3.....

 

2.....

 

 

Id guess you've raced this season to know that they are team racing then yeah. I mean we see Tom, Dode, Mike, Drumb, Robin, Aub knocking the crap out of each other pretty much every race. They are at the top of the points because they are consistently quicker through the traffic then the lower graders are and thats what I think makes the big difference, you can either control the contact or you cant. But you would know this as you've raced F2s how many times this season in UKDirt.....

 

 

Also I have Drumbs setup guide somewhere Ill dig it out and get it added somewhere whether it be on the site on forum as soon as I can find it.

 

Let it lapse from last year after seeing how bad it had got. And the attitude in the above post I think backs up what I'm saying. "We're right you'r wrong but why won't you race"

 

Like trying to make a point in the Saloons last year when they were supposedly being ran with Sim-Stox for the 1 points series but then ran different server settings I get told by and admin that "It must be an Irish thing [to want both to run the same]" now where was the need for the attitude in that instance.

Edited April 20, 2011 by pete904

[pete904]

You know you asked why people are missing, other than joining in with the collective "I don't know" I am giving you 1 of the reasons why and am getting attitude for it. Good luck UKDirt.... you need it!

 

And just to add a few facts from this season, in the F2s 4 of the top 5 in points use the private Teamspeak, 6 in the top 10. Top 3 in F1s use the same private teamspeak.

 

Not that I'm suggesting anythings going on just pointing out the facts.

Edited April 20, 2011 by pete904

[Johno3]

You know you asked why people are missing, other than joining in with the collective "I don't know" I am giving you 1 of the reasons why and am getting attitude for it. Good luck UKDirt.... you need it!

 

And just to add a few facts from this season, in the F2s 4 of the top 5 in points use the private Teamspeak, 6 in the top 10. Top 3 in F1s use the same private teamspeak.

 

Not that I'm suggesting anythings going on just pointing out the facts.

 

 

Hello Pete,

 

LeeK was just pointing out that you have not raced and therefore wouldnt know if team racing was going on or not. And yes you did suggest something is going on:

 

And its funny how the top F2 point scorers use their own private teamspeak "We don't team race honest gov"

 

Rest assured, I have raced all but 2 F1 meetings this year, and have missed very few meetings in the last few years and I have never seen 'Team racing' as you put it. I have seen people race people differently, ie don't hit them back, but not team racing.

 

The three that you have been talking about in F1 all started at different grades this year, hence part of the reason why they are currently in the top 3. They have just recently all come together and have been knockhing the living hell out of each other, so if they are team racing, they need to change their tactics.

 

I think you make some fair points, but at the same time you do make 'suggestions' as you put it and LeeK has just told you how the league is currently. I persoally dont see that as being rude at all.

 

Cheers

 

Johno

 

EDIT: I have also been in the teamspeak channel a couple of times in the middle of last season and I was never told to wipe anyone out. In the server I was in, with basically UKSOM members, if you went to race you went into a seperate room where you can't hear anything so we were not distracted from racing and nothing was said and we couldnt hear the none racers talking.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Johno3

[pete904]

You know you asked why people are missing, other than joining in with the collective "I don't know" I am giving you 1 of the reasons why and am getting attitude for it. Good luck UKDirt.... you need it!

 

And just to add a few facts from this season, in the F2s 4 of the top 5 in points use the private Teamspeak, 6 in the top 10. Top 3 in F1s use the same private teamspeak.

 

Not that I'm suggesting anythings going on just pointing out the facts.

 

 

Hello Pete,

 

LeeK was just pointing out that you have not raced and therefore wouldnt know if team racing was going on or not. And yes you did suggest something is going on:

 

And its funny how the top F2 point scorers use their own private teamspeak "We don't team race honest gov"

 

Rest assured, I have reaced all but 2 F1 meetings this year, and have missed very few meetings in the last few years and I have never seen 'Team racing' as you put it. I have seen people race people differently, ie don't hit them back, but not team racing.

 

The three that you have been talking about in F1 all started at different grades this year, hence part of the reason why they are currently in the top 3. They have just recently all come together and have been knockhing the living hell out of each other, so if they are team racing, they need to change their tactics.

 

I think you make some fair points, but at the same time you do make 'suggestions' as you put it and LeeK has just told you how the league is currently. I persoally dont see that as being rude at all.

 

Cheers

 

Johno

 

Thanks for that Johno, but if you were a struggling novice I'm sure how you could see it.

[demonstone]

ZOMG teamspeaks evil, teh worlds going to end!!! cause people can talk while racing,

 

if you must know TS goes quite when racings on. other than the odd 4 letter word. (you know why? cause they focusing their attention on their own race) instead of some asshat 5 cars in front or behind

 

And just to add a few facts from this season, in the F2s 4 of the top 5 in points use the private Teamspeak, 6 in the top 10. Top 3 in F1s use the same private teamspeak.

the likes of aub drum robin tom ect ran rings round most b4 TS was used, so come up with another conspiracy theory will ya.

or are you now going to say they plot and scheme via irc/msn too?

Edited April 20, 2011 by demonstone

[pete904]

ZOMG teamspeaks evil, teh worlds going to end!!! cause people can talk while racing,

 

if you must know TS goes quite when racings on. other than the odd 4 letter word. (you know why? cause they focusing their attention on their own race) instead of some asshat 5 cars in front or behind

 

And just to add a few facts from this season, in the F2s 4 of the top 5 in points use the private Teamspeak, 6 in the top 10. Top 3 in F1s use the same private teamspeak.

the likes of aub drum robin tom ect ran rings round most b4 TS was used, so come up with another conspiracy theory will ya.

or are you now going to say they plot and scheme via irc/msn too?

 

Methinks the lady doth protest too much in the words of a famous bard!

But its intersting to say the least that people are picking up on that point, but none of the others that are equally valid.

 

And I make the point again, you wanted the opinion of people that have stopped racing on UKDirt so don't shoot the messenger when you get it and don't like it!

 

And again here is attitude from the elite for giving an opinion that they asked for!

Edited April 20, 2011 by pete904

[kendo912]

Pads/keyboard and swingman in 2011... come on now who wants to spend money on a wheel / sim-rig to take it serious is someone along side will be racing on a laptop keyboard

 

You and that other retard are obviously team speaking for ban the pad/keyboarders then......

 

Great advert to increase numbers that is son..."we really encourage people of all abilities and grades to race....apart from ones who haven't got a wheel"!!!!

 

Good thinking that is

[wrighty496]

i'm a struggling novice Pete (or at least a perennial yellow top) who uses the UKSOM teamspeak server occasionally when i race......it never did me any bloody favours at all, unless being the subject of scorn and ridicule counts as 'favours'* lol

 

On the subject of Teamspeak, i would personally prefer if there was a UK Dirt teamspeak room that could be used for meetings but, until all have A: access to it with a mic and 2: a pc that's happy to run rFactor and things like teamspeak in the background then there'll always be an accusation of 'haves and have-nots' to a certain extent, but on reflection it'd be a lot easier for the occasional fubars people have with installs and skinpacks and stuff that there was a league room for members and meeting attendees.

 

As for generally not racing? from my point of view by the time it gets to the start of the season in March i'm sick of the bloody sight of mods and i'm ready for my 'winter break' haha.....i do the first couple of meetings and by the time i've been swiped into the fence a few times (which i can live with) or had my nose chopped off and spun out by someone i've given racing room to (which i can't bloody live with) i lose interest pretty quickly.....in the end if you're not on the pace it does get a bit wearing fairly quickly so, from my point of view, a bit more practice would be warranted and welcome.

Having said all that, the sense of community that used to exist here i think has waned slightly, partly because of the split between UK Dirt and Simstox (and Pete, don't be lecturing people on their attitude coz yours to LeeK and Johno hasnt been much better really) and partly, i think, because there's so much more available for people online now, from console gaming to facebook (or to give it the correct name 'bloody facebook', along with bloody farmville and bloody cityville etc etc) and all inbetween......its fine to ask people who are members of the league why they dont race, but it might be better to ask the dozens and dozens who used to be members two and three years ago why they don't race any more and i'd wager that 'havent got the time' is among the top 3 answers......it might even be (i'll just whisper this) that stockcar racing as a sport isn't as popular as it was, especially when its so expensive to get to meets now......people arent gonna spend so much time racing online when they're forgetting the sport exists......

 

hey ho, maybe it's a temporary thing and it'll get better, but the simstox+ukdirt saloons initiative looked like a great idea and a step forward to me and it died on its ar5e. There seems to be a background resentment somewhere, whether it be 'pad fear' or snootiness ('we're a sim, you're a banger/heat league' etc) or what, but as a contributor of sorts to both leagues it boils my pi55.....in the end, i spend a load of time making stuff that i never race coz i'm always getting my bloody ear bent about 'them lot' in whichever league.....grow up ffs.

 

 

 

*it is good natured, but tbh it's bloody off-putting at times lol

[drumbstick]

3.) Instead of banning it why not embrace it and have an open UKDirt team speak, then even people who don't have a mic can listen in and it may disperse some of the conspiracy theories.

 

 

[demonstone]

nope not protesting just beeing a wind up merchant as the ts thing is irrelevant.

 

Robin a multi champion in a differnt legue long b4 he enterd the so called private ts.

tom always been in the mix also b4 he enterd ts.

drumb raced in many diffrent leagues and won a lots.

aubs just a jammy T*T probbably the apples

 

kinda like saying the reason thier at the top is cause of TS

 

when actually their better than most.

 

 

 

[pete904]

Pads/keyboard and swingman in 2011... come on now who wants to spend money on a wheel / sim-rig to take it serious is someone along side will be racing on a laptop keyboard

 

You and that other retard are obviously team speaking for ban the pad/keyboarders then......

 

Great advert to increase numbers that is son..."we really encourage people of all abilities and grades to race....apart from ones who haven't got a wheel"!!!!

 

Good thinking that is

 

And there it is in black and white, the UKDirt elite's real opinion on the matter. Any further discussion is rather futile don't you think?

Sim racing has evolved it can't be denied. UKDirt hasn't and the numbers have dwindled to reflect it.

 

Unless there is some other reason why the "hardcore sim" method regularly gets the big turnouts and the "welcome alcomers" doesn't.

 

PS I agree with drumbsticks quote!

[pete904]

but the simstox+ukdirt saloons initiative looked like a great idea and a step forward to me and it died on its ar5e.

 

Mainly because of the aformentioned attitude!

 

People are voting with their feet and its sad to see it. After being part of ukdirt at its height and seeing it now its completly changed. You ask for help in praccy you get ignored or a smart arse answer, you give your opinion as yo why your not racing and your told your wrong!

 

Ask anyone the number 1 reason why they gave up on UKDirt and they will say due to the elitism, seems there's not many who have the plumbs or intrest in saying it. And its no use you boys saying a collective "oh no there isnt" bucause you are on the wrong side of the fence to see it!

[wee dode]

gave up ukdirt? suppose i would now get called a so called ukdirt elite now but ive raced in both leagues along with others and ukdirt was the best by far! Fair racing, well organised and competitive racing which when i when to sim-stox....well there wasnt much of it in f2's!

 

Say we team race all you want, i couldnt care since i know for a fact it aint true! i was a strugling blue roof, then dropped to yellow and managed to work my way up to red and do well without using TS! We are doing well not because of TS but because as leek said, we manage to get through the traffic etc.

 

and fordy thats coming from you when the last time you raced f2's you were driving just as bad as a retard cause your hardcore?!

[drumbstick]

but the simstox+ukdirt saloons initiative looked like a great idea and a step forward to me and it died on its ar5e.

 

Mainly because of the aformentioned attitude!

 

People are voting with their feet and its sad to see it. After being part of ukdirt at its height and seeing it now its completly changed. You ask for help in praccy you get ignored or a smart arse answer, you give your opinion as yo why your not racing and your told your wrong!

 

Ask anyone the number 1 reason why they gave up on UKDirt and they will say due to the elitism, seems there's not many who have the plumbs or intrest in saying it. And its no use you boys saying a collective "oh no there isnt" bucause you are on the wrong side of the fence to see it!

 

I have written a detailed set-up guide(it does need updating as 1 or 2 points are not 100% accurate), offered to do free set-up and help sessions, and provided F2 set-ups(The F1 defaults are mine as well) what else do you want me to do Pete?

 

As for what happened with the saloons, nobody knows what happened and those who were not involved can't really comment.

 

PS I agree with drumbsticks quote!

 

So would that be enough to get you out racing?

 

And there it is in black and white, the UKDirt elite's real opinion on the matter. Any further discussion is rather futile don't you think?

 

I really don't understand this comment Pete, would you care to elaborate? Kendo may be a long time respected member, but holds no admin position in UKDirt and has no say on things? I ask because I really hope we can get this thread back on track as it has some very valid points from everyone who has commented.

 

 

[Nezza46]

just spent 20 mins or so reading this, and for me I think you are all going off the boil to be honest. Team speak yadda yadda and team racing blah blah....

 

the bottom line as to why i think numbers are down, is simply that it is very difficult to drive it.

 

I race tooz because I can handle the car enough to be competitive, which makes it enjoyable, but I struggle to be fast or even consistant enough to want to race f1's. I have put in a fair few hours offline on this mod, but simply find it too hard to control. I have a decent pc and a wheel before anyone tells me to buy one etc.

 

It is a simulator and that shouldn't be changed in my opinion, but I don't see how you can ask why the numbers are down when I probably imagine most newbies think the same as me?

 

If i could control the car like I can control the f2's I would probably race them (as I did both mods with heat), but I will be man enough to admit they are simply to powerful for me.