Morbius Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I request clarification on the following general rule. We will not accept 'Kami-Kaze' style driving. Any driver judged by the UK-Dirt Admin team to be doing so will face penalties. In my brief experience so far, kamikaze moves have been prevalent in F1's and F2's. I have a wealth of evidence of kamikaze moves from the last F1 meeting but no action was taken. Now, I might be new here but I didn't pay the membership fee to have my race ruined by people not paying any attention to rules. Does this mean the rule is wrong? Is it OK to make kamikaze moves? That's fine with me, just as long as I know so that I can make kamikaze moves back. When it's not a level playing field it's really not all that fair. I can take a tap, that's part of racing, but when people make no effort at all to brake for the corners then it's not that fun when they smash into your car and you get taken out of points paying positions. I accept that sometimes accidents are unavoidable but I have replays of people lining their car up at the one in front and not lifting off the throttle for a corner without applying any brakes. Your car would be totalled in real life and the danger aspect would mean you just would not do it. I really want to race here because the mods are so much fun, but I'm fed up of being taken out of points positions by deliberate kamikaze moves in the F1 and F2 series. If this rule is no longer valid then remove it from the rules page so that everyone can race on a level playing field, otherwise enforce the rule and take action against those who don't abide by it. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saloon600 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well said mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendo912 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) 1st and foremost this thread will not turn into a driving standards one, there's been plenty of others in the past. What one person's take on kamikaze style driving is different to others. There's is a complaints procedure in place for each mod to which you should be aware of that having read the rules prior to racing in ukdirt, so if you think that you have had your race ruined by someone's kamikaze style then make sure you save the replay and complain to the approriate admin team members. The F2 mod's admin members choose to view the replays themselves watching out for various wrong doing's to which we act upon with or without a complaint from the drivers in question. Obviously this isn't a perfect scenario where we can view every replay from everyone's view but hopefully the really annoying problems of lap downing and follow ins that were, IMO, beginning to creap in during 2006 and early 2007 has been highlighted to an extent that it's quite an unusual occurance these days. Let's not forget that F1's and F2's are contact formula's and both sets of admin team's do view a lot of real life meets where plenty of contact is used. I've been at NIR today where i saw some no brakes, flat out attacks from several drivers including Bradbury886 launching Sworder152 into a parked car in the fence..... and was at Brum at the end of last year to see Stu Smith Jnr launch FWJ into several cars with a near enough follow in. - these were deemed to be acceptable. IMO kamikaze style driving which isn't acceptable was seen in the consolation semi Final with the now infamous Neachell vs Mad Murray incident to which if something similar happened online then each admin team would act if the appropriate complaint was put in as per the rules OR in the instance of F2's, if the admin team saw the alleged offence. From an F2 point of view, if you look at this thread HERE then you will see how many people the F2 admin team have acted against since 2006 which i do beleive is rather alot more than how many BriSCA have acted against in the same time. Edit - Many people see me as a "rodder" and i openly admit to having some words with people in the past about "hitting me" but to me that's more about racecraft as such rather than getting hit as i generally like to see a red or s/s "train" going round instead of hammering each other for 15th place ! There's always people in real life and online that if they are on your bumper they will hit you irrespective of what position it's for and what lap it's on - it's upto you to learn those people to know who to avoid and how to pass them - that's the racecraft.... Edited March 21, 2008 by kendo912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbius Posted March 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 What one person's take on kamikaze style driving is different to others. There's is a complaints procedure in place for each mod to which you should be aware of that having read the rules prior to racing in ukdirt, so if you think that you have had your race ruined by someone's kamikaze style then make sure you save the replay and complain to the approriate admin team members. I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Clearly if someone does not use the brakes for a corner then that is a kamikaze move. I know fully well about the complaints procedure, but I have complained and nothing has been done. I have replays which fully show kamikaze driving by white, yellow, blue and even red graded drivers who of all people should know better. Let's not forget that F1's and F2's are contact formula's and both sets of admin team's do view a lot of real life meets where plenty of contact is used. I've been at NIR today where i saw some no brakes, flat out attacks from several drivers including Bradbury886 launching Sworder152 into a parked car in the fence..... and was at Brum at the end of last year to see Stu Smith Jnr launch FWJ into several cars with a near enough follow in. - these were deemed to be acceptable. Whatever the real life situation is, the fact remains that UK Dirt have a rule which prohibits this sort of driving. Either remove the rule or enforce it. Simple as that. IMO kamikaze style driving which isn't acceptable was seen in the consolation semi Final with the now infamous Neachell vs Mad Murray incident to which if something similar happened online then each admin team would act if the appropriate complaint was put in as per the rules OR in the instance of F2's, if the admin team saw the alleged offence. I'm sorry but no kamikaze driving is acceptable. It clearly states this in the rules. A tap in the corner is fine. Deliebrately slamming someone into the wall, ruining their race, is a kamikaze move and is completely unacceptable. Edit - Many people see me as a "rodder" and i openly admit to having some words with people in the past about "hitting me" but to me that's more about racecraft as such rather than getting hit as i generally like to see a red or s/s "train" going round instead of hammering each other for 15th place ! There's always people in real life and online that if they are on your bumper they will hit you irrespective of what position it's for and what lap it's on - it's upto you to learn those people to know who to avoid and how to pass them - that's the racecraft.... Why should it be up to me to avoid people who are breaking the rules? Those people shouldn't even be on the track in the first place. If complaints are received then action should be taken or an explanation should be given as to why it wasn't. Until this situation is clarified I will be protesting every single kamikaze move on me. Either kamikaze moves are legal or they are not. If they are legal then remove the rule that says they aren't. If they aren't legal then punish those who commit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendo912 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) That's the biggest load of drivel i've ever read in my life - on this forum that takes some beating as well! You have complained in the F1's and it is being investigated so don't give me the nothing has been done line because other people have lives and will get back to your several complaints in due course. Kamikaze driving is what each mod's admin team deem to be that - it's not down to you to decide, it's the admin teams collective experience in online racing that will distinguish what is and what isn't acceptable. UKDIRT has the kamikaze rule in force so as not to totally guff up every race - clearly that wouldn't be acceptable but people that don't brake going into a bend is not kamikaze style - you'll find that most people hit then brake which IS like real life. Feel free to disagree with every move you like in the F2's - send them into me and i will look at them, but i think you understand the response that you will get back. There are several rules in place in ukdirt which give the admin teams the ability to award penalties to those whom we feel take things too far - the kamikaze driving is one of them but irrespective of your feelings, it's the admin teams that decide on what is too far and what isn't. I admit that some people's driving is at times borderline with there hits but the fact remains that kamikaze style driving is a follow in or right turning taking people to the fence and that is what we act against. If your definition of kamikaze driving is different to my take on it then perhaps you should run a mod - it won't be too hard as there won't be many people doing it! This rule has been in place since at least 2004 when i joined and probably since 2000/1 when ukdirt started - no-one else seems to have had a problem with it and i'd suggest that's at least 500 members if not more. Edited March 22, 2008 by kendo912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanSkin Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) I wasn't going to respond here for reasons you'll see later but here goes... I know fully well about the complaints procedure, but I have complained and nothing has been done. Presumably then you have had response from the Admin Team(s) in question detailing why no action has been taken in this particular instance(s) or I'm sure no admin team would begrudge you querying "why" no action has been taken. Any comments you do receive are ones you need to take on board and consider when racing in the future. If you have not received any response yet - bear in mind that it does take time to turn around any complaints you lodge - as you said earlier... ....I didn't pay the membership fee to have my race ruined by people not paying any attention to rules.Which is of course correct, but remember that your fee is for costs incurred running this league (i.e. server and software costs) and not to pay admin members to work every spare hour doing the undesirable jobs. The league is for members by members, and always looking to improve. Only recently I know the F1 Admin Team advertised for new members, I don't think your name was among the applicants, which was perhaps a pitty given your disposition towards dealing with disciplinary issues. Now, sorry if I've been a bit blunt, but when I see you making complaints like this after "ruining my enjoyment" in a few races this and last Friday I just see a pot calling a kettle black (that's in the rules too, but I assumed it was just you still getting the hang of things and learning racecraft as Kendo posted about - so I'm quite happy to let it slide and move on). Kendo has replied inthe time I was typing this, and has covered the rest of the points I was going to make, so I will leave it there. Suffice to say if you stick with it, you will learn there are people to race, and people to treat with more caution. Just as we watch every weekend on tracks around the country. Sometimes someone will be in a bad mood, sometimes you will have upset someone, sometimes you will be mad yourself and so the list goes on.... Edited March 22, 2008 by DanSkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbius Posted March 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 You have complained in the F1's and it is being investigated so don't give me the nothing has been done line because other people have lives and will get back to your several complaints in due course. Fair enough. I noticed that an update to the results had been posted and assumed I'd been ignored. My apologies. Kamikaze driving is what each mod's admin team deem to be that - it's not down to you to decide, it's the admin teams collective experience in online racing that will distinguish what is and what isn't acceptable. How can there be consistent rulings when there is a woolly definition like that? How do I know what is acceptable and what isn't? UKDIRT has the kamikaze rule in force so as not to totally guff up every race - clearly that wouldn't be acceptable but people that don't brake going into a bend is not kamikaze style - you'll find that most people hit then brake which IS like real life. No, that's a tap. I'm fine with that. What I mean is when people don't need to brake because they impart all their momentum onto the car in front, sending the car in front into the barrier at high speed. I admit that some people's driving is at times borderline with there hits but the fact remains that kamikaze style driving is a follow in or right turning taking people to the fence and that is what we act against. I'm sorry but that's not what I understand by the word "kamikaze." Change the wording to say "no follow ins" and "no right turns" and that would be fine. That would say exactly what you mean. If your definition of kamikaze driving is different to my take on it then perhaps you should run a mod - it won't be too hard as there won't be many people doing it! This rule has been in place since at least 2004 when i joined and probably since 2000/1 when ukdirt started - no-one else seems to have had a problem with it and i'd suggest that's at least 500 members if not more. And finally you resort to cheap shots. Great community I joined here I'm not looking for an argument - I just want a clarification. Just because I'm the first person to ask for a clarification does not mean that my opinion is worthless. If you want to alienate a new member for asking a new question about the rules, then congratulations buddy, you've done just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbius Posted March 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Now, sorry if I've been a bit blunt, but when I see you making complaints like this after "ruining my enjoyment" in a few races this and last Friday I just see a pot calling a kettle black (that's in the rules too, but I assumed it was just you still getting the hang of things and learning racecraft as Kendo posted about - so I'm quite happy to let it slide and move on). I apologise if you've felt aggrieved at moves I have made in the Legends races. I was told that everything goes in the Legends races by virtually everyone so I didn't hold back. If this was wrong then I'm sorry. Only recently I know the F1 Admin Team advertised for new members, I don't think your name was among the applicants, which was perhaps a pitty given your disposition towards dealing with disciplinary issues. I didn't know of any advert, which is why I haven't applied. Seeing as my opinion seems to be out of whack with the general consensus I wouldn't have thought it would be worth applying now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendo912 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 My cheap shots are much cheaper than that. The point in your entire question to which has been answered is purely down to what people see as kamikaze moves.... IMO kamikaze manouvres need to be judged on an individual basis to which the admin teams look at - If we had rules to every given effect or scenario then the rules page would be bigger than Prydie's little black book (if you don't know Prydie then it's quite a big book) You posted the question, I answered with my take on things to which you disagree and now i disagree with you again.... this could go on for a long time. Ultimately, we ask that people don't blatantly ruin other people's races outside of what would be deemed fair (what is fair and what is not leads back to the non exhaustive list) I have ruined people's races by fencing them or putting them into a parked car in what i deem to be a fair way although should that person complain then I would be eligible to banned as much as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prydie#9 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 enough about my little black book... Morbius, im not and never will be admin (they rejected my application more times than i remember) but i say this as a very fair ( i think anyway) racer...i have on occation hit guys without using the brakes, usually this being either of 2 types of drivers 1. a newbie, who i dont know if he will do me worse next bend ....or 2. a twat, who i know WILL do me next bend. if you dont fall into any of these catogories then i dont know why folk are fireing u in.....all we ask is that u either speak to the person themself after the meeting and/or send in replays of whats been done.....let me know when u have someone wipe u out of the lead by cuttin the whole track and sayin their screen freezed lmao...kick on Kane lol anyway i hope u still enjoy your racing and come back week in week out and im sure things will sort themselves out, if not just fire the guys back. Prydie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Morbius, witht them amounts of complaints wouldnt you be better just downloading fraps and recording the hit(s) from a few different angles then uploadin to youtube or something similar so we can all see for ourselves as we all have a different point of view form the work kamikaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbius Posted March 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 I'd like to apologise to everyone. Starting this topic was a mistake. I've been a bit down recently and wasn't thinking straight. I was in the wrong here and was way too critical. Can we forget this ever happened? Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC388 Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 I'd like to apologise to everyone. Starting this topic was a mistake. I've been a bit down recently and wasn't thinking straight. I was in the wrong here and was way too critical. Can we forget this ever happened? Sorry. Absolutely no need for a apologise. U saw the rule, u asked the question, u got the answer and u discussed it..................end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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