F1's and Damage

[Mike]

We all know that the racing in f1s aint the best again. You can follow someone in big time and spoil anyones race very easy and you can just carry on...

 

I thought it would be a good thing to update the MOD and make them like they damage alot more, as example the NZ MOD. If you follow someone in there than there is a big chance that your car is so much bend that you can not carry on.

 

Now I don't want to blame UKSom and everyone who made this MOD and maybe it is a hell of work... I don't know anything about it and I can only credit you for the job you lads do, so don't shoot me down lol. But maybe its something to look after because how the driving standerds are these days thats just horrible.

 

 

Now what do you all think about it? Or any other opinions how we can make these cars much better to race again, as in real stockcar racing?

[Mav]

I seem to pick up damage quite easily!!

 

When I hit the inner tyres or when I hit a stranded car, I always seem to get damage - yet if I hit the fence hard I usually bounce out and carry on.

 

I would prefer these to be reversed - If you hit the fence hard you get damage like real life, but if you hit a moveable object (Inner tyres are movable in real life) then you should pick up less damage.

This would aid with the racing, as often its not your fault when clipping cars or inner tyres and it seems harsh to penalise you for it, but there are only two reasons why you would hit the fence hard and thats 1) a dam good hit or 2) flat out into it.

That should get you the damage.

 

Tricky bit comes with post and wire fence such as Yarmouth. Not many people would finish if the damage was more from hitting the posts plus I think more drivers would try and put you in to get you damaged.

 

I have lost interest in racing F1's and F2's because I get no luck and the two sets of drivers whom are doing well are UKSom, who have knowledge of the mod and its characteristics (not their fault), and the "Bully Boys".

These are drivers who just "Bully" their way through other drivers, not caring what it does to the other drivers race, and scoring well because of it.

Not saying thats wrong, if the mod is there to be driven that way and its not against the rules to do it, then they are exploiting the weakness of the game to their advantage.

 

Maybe changing the damage levels would make them change their driving style and make the racing cleaner and more like real life, who knows??

 

I don't know what the answer is, all I know is that its not the kind of racing I enjoy, and it seems that its always certain drivers who prosper and genuine drivers who don't.

 

 

[LeeK39]

I thought it would be a good thing to update the MOD and make them like they damage alot more, as example the NZ MOD. If you follow someone in there than there is a big chance that your car is so much bend that you can not carry on.

 

On the flip side to this is that if you get taken out/buried/followed in whatever by someone driving stupid then you race WILL be over. Currently you still have a chance that your car might survive it. Those who drive like you mention to cause this so called poor standards will still do it and to be honest I find it kind of ironic that you posted this Mike as you have always been one of the drivers who hit stupid more than anyone else out there so perhaps you need to look at yourself before thinking about others driving standards.

[Corny 391]

We all know that the racing in f1s aint the best again.

 

Sorry but for an admin to be posting this is in my opinion irresponsible to say the least. 'We all know'? Er, no actually - in fact since I made a late season-start at the end of May I can say that the standards of driving in F1 have seemed the best they have been in all the time I have been racing the rFactor mod. You're wrong to put this message out in this way as though it is universally agreed, as if a newcomer/interested party was to visit the forum and read your post, they would be picking up an impression that the racing is pure carnage and that is far from the case.

 

I would consider it only respectful for any issues/ideas concerning the mod itself to be channelled behind closed doors and in a way that would be constructive, rather than whipping up a furore on here when frankly I think you're basing it on your own recent personal experience and little else.

[drumbstick]

I seem to pick up damage quite easily!!

 

When I hit the inner tyres or when I hit a stranded car, I always seem to get damage - yet if I hit the fence hard I usually bounce out and carry on.

 

This frustrates us as much as you, rFactor should have the capability to have moveable objects like tyres but it does not work properly its either solid or has the mass of a cone and bounces round the track.

 

It may have been fixed in rF2 to be honest I don't know, but not much we can do in rF1.

 

I have to say especially after some of your driving on Monday Mike, and your comment to me earlier in the season that you always keep your foot to the floor until you make contact with the car in front I find it highly ironic you posting this thread.

Edited August 9, 2012 by drumbstick

[Matty300]

Personally I think that any tweaking to the car physics and damage modelling can only be of benefit in making the mod more realistic. Massive hits without consequence to those dishing it out does seem somewhat unrealistic, im not aware of the NZ mod having never tried it, but im assuming that self inflicted damage from an over zealous hit on another driver's rear bumper is a consideration worth taking. Lets try and make this topic constructive & not resort to cheap shots at individuals, too often topics worth discussing on here become too political, the issue isn't so much the decline in driving standards, more how to make the mod more realistic & the decision making on the part of the driver have consequences.I agree with Mav that being aggressive & "bullying" pays dividends currently, you can either take the hits and remain a low grader, or copy those who use the bumper & reap the rewards. The last two Coventrys I raced I got 4 points & 12 points through being "bullied" by the blues & reds barging past. Tonight I put the bumper in & got 38 points, so what does that tell me? Draw your own conclusions. Im inclined to think that you make your own luck Mav & maybe a change of tactics is required. It may not win you any friends, but nothing beats getting points on the board & moving up the roof colours.

 

I agree with Corny & feel that the discipline in the F1 racing at the moment is at an all time high, there will always be exceptions & drivers with agendas, but as long as admin continues to do its job fairly & consistently then we are going in the right direction.

[drumbstick]

Personally I think that any tweaking to the car physics and damage modelling can only be of benefit in making the mod more realistic. Massive hits without consequence to those dishing it out does seem somewhat unrealistic, im not aware of the NZ mod having never tried it, but im assuming that self inflicted damage from an over zealous hit on another driver's rear bumper is a consideration worth taking. Lets try and make this topic constructive & not resort to cheap shots at individuals, too often topics worth discussing on here become too political, the issue isn't so much the decline in driving standards, more how to make the mod more realistic & the decision making on the part of the driver have consequences.I agree with Mav that being aggressive & "bullying" pays dividends currently, you can either take the hits and remain a low grader, or copy those who use the bumper & reap the rewards. The last two Coventrys I raced I got 4 points & 12 points through being "bullied" by the blues & reds barging past. Tonight I put the bumper in & got 38 points, so what does that tell me? Draw your own conclusions. Im inclined to think that you make your own luck Mav & maybe a change of tactics is required. It may not win you any friends, but nothing beats getting points on the board & moving up the roof colours.

 

I agree with Corny & feel that the discipline in the F1 racing at the moment is at an all time high, there will always be exceptions & drivers with agendas, but as long as admin continues to do its job fairly & consistently then we are going in the right direction.

 

The problem is the trigger in rfactor for damage is force on certain areas of the cars, mostly the wheels. If you decrease the force needed to damage a wheel, bend suspension or knock something of then the car in front getting followed in cannot carry on and the car behind that has had no contact on the wheels just carries on as nothing happens.

 

I can also tell you, if we straighten the cars up just makes things worse I speak from experience.

 

As you say the discipline being defined by admin is at an all time high and quite frankly the solution is for the drivers to look at themselves, and decide if they want to sort it out.

 

 

[Grasser233]

The problem is the trigger in rfactor for damage is force on certain areas of the cars, mostly the wheels. If you decrease the force needed to damage a wheel, bend suspension or knock something of then the car in front getting followed in cannot carry on and the car behind that has had no contact on the wheels just carries on as nothing happens.

 

I can also tell you, if we straighten the cars up just makes things worse I speak from experience.

 

As you say the discipline being defined by admin is at an all time high and quite frankly the solution is for the drivers to look at themselves, and decide if they want to sort it out.

 

What Drumb has pointed out here is quite correct, the damage just doesn't work like that. the car to car contact will always result in the car getting put into the fence coming worse off which tbh is as it would in real life anyway. You just can't simulate a bumper bending onto a wheel etc (and there's no base game that can) which is what would happen to a real car. Weakening them would result in virtually no cars finishing due the merest brush of the wall causing major damage and punctures galore which ironically is what happens in the NZ mod and imo far too weak. We spent quite some time getting a balance where you can damage the suspension under certain impacts (as Mav has pointed out) but not weak enough that they collapse within a lap.

 

As for driving standards, which have been at an all time high I would say this season, there's nothing that the mod can do about that. It's all up to the individual driver and how they conduct themselves on the track.

[Mav]

I wish I could drive aggressively Matty!!!

I still haven't got complete car control let alone going in for the hits and siderail hits, for those I end up spinning myself out.

Due to the "Bullys" I now pull over to try and stay in the race as I know that if I try and stay my ground I will get damage or taken out.

Pulling over isnt a furfilling way to race, but its how I get my results or lack of them!!! lol

 

Trying to think of the damage from another angle (which I am sure you guys have also done), is there any way that you can relate "Speed" to amount of damage.

ie if a car is 70mph or above then the car collapses entirely even though it maybe bumper to bumper on the car infront.

Very rare in real life would a car be connecting to another one at such speeds.

 

I appreciate that you have many many restrictions on what you can do to achieve sensible results, and I applaud you all for trying to.

 

But as its been said before, peoples attitude and consequently driving style contribute hugely to how the mod comes across.

[drumbstick]

ie if a car is 70mph or above then the car collapses entirely even though it maybe bumper to bumper on the car infront.

Very rare in real life would a car be connecting to another one at such speeds.

 

No its all force based, so it is literally if RFWheel hits something with force x then bend. If it hits with force x then break etc.

 

The force is calculated, by speed, angle ETC

[Robin87]

I seem to pick up damage quite easily!!

 

When I hit the inner tyres or when I hit a stranded car, I always seem to get damage - yet if I hit the fence hard I usually bounce out and carry on.

 

This frustrates us as much as you, rFactor should have the capability to have moveable objects like tyres but it does not work properly its either solid or has the mass of a cone and bounces round the track.

 

It may have been fixed in rF2 to be honest I don't know, but not much we can do in rF1.

 

I have to say especially after some of your driving on Monday Mike, and your comment to me earlier in the season that you always keep your foot to the floor until you make contact with the car in front I find it highly ironic you posting this thread.

 

Well said drumb!

a better world starts with youself

Edited August 10, 2012 by Robin87

[Hooty256]

Yeah more damage would be great.

 

I feel a bit annoyed that some people imagine we just bodged these mods together, releasing stuff as soon as we had got it working in any way. We actually spent just as much time working on the contact and damage as we did on the physics and models of the cars.

 

There are lots of things in rfactor that we have very little or no control of, damage being one of them.

 

Believe me when I say that me and all the other UKSOM members have spent many hours trying to think of a way to stop the idiots that can't drive without using the bumper every bend!

[Allan964]

Yeah more damage would be great.

 

I feel a bit annoyed that some people imagine we just bodged these mods together, releasing stuff as soon as we had got it working in any way. We actually spent just as much time working on the contact and damage as we did on the physics and models of the cars.

 

There are lots of things in rfactor that we have very little or no control of, damage being one of them.

 

Believe me when I say that me and all the other UKSOM members have spent many hours trying to think of a way to stop the idiots that can't drive without using the bumper every bend!

 

And a very good job you lads have done.

 

I don't race F1's but speaking from the F2's, your adding a lot more power to a car with a lot more pushing power. If someone goes kamikaze in tooz it's bad enough, i can imagine what the 1's must be like.

 

What's the story with RF2, presumably the mods are all backwards compatible with possibly added scope for modification?

[bangersteve]

at the end off the day i think that the mod as a whole is spot on y should the mod team spend all ther hard work time and effort to change the damage just because a few morrons carnt drive in a suitable manor i think the way admin should go about it is do a driver review over say a 3 to 5 meeeting period and thoes found to be bullying should recive a mod ban for however long and have there point stipped regardless asa for pepole moaning about bullying yes it happens unfortunatly in every leauge and is vertualy unavoidable and yes its unfair and spoils yours and every1 elses race but to change a mod that already has reached its prime it stupid its designd to be fun and fair as it stands with regards to the mod atleast you still have more of a chance rejoining the race after youve bin follow in or watever bullys would use damage to there advantage and make racing even more unfair .......

[NielsR]

I think there should definetely be more damage, and i do think this will bring the amount of reckless hits down.

 

But I'd like to see one thing more changed, I think the cars haven't got power enough.

When you're on homestraight you can just floor it and the wheels don't spin.

Would't it be amzing hat the cars have so much power (just like real life), and you have to use the throttle very gently? (especially on shale! )

that's my opinion...!

[drumbstick]

I think there should definetely be more damage, and i do think this will bring the amount of reckless hits down.

 

But I'd like to see one thing more changed, I think the cars haven't got power enough.

When you're on homestraight you can just floor it and the wheels don't spin.

Would't it be amzing hat the cars have so much power (just like real life), and you have to use the throttle very gently? (especially on shale! )

that's my opinion...!

 

To much grip rather than not enough power

[NielsR]

I think there should definetely be more damage, and i do think this will bring the amount of reckless hits down.

 

But I'd like to see one thing more changed, I think the cars haven't got power enough.

When you're on homestraight you can just floor it and the wheels don't spin.

Would't it be amzing hat the cars have so much power (just like real life), and you have to use the throttle very gently? (especially on shale! )

that's my opinion...!

 

To much grip rather than not enough power

 

Thats also possible..... lol