Johno3 Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Good Evening Guys, This topic is designed to give you a little incite into the coming season for the UK Dirt F1’s and although all the details are not yet available, as the finer details have yet to be decided, I can confirm the main details. The 2008 Season As many of you will have noticed, sections on the UK Dirt website and the UK Dirt forum have appeared for both Heat and rFactor. This is because we will be running both mods under the UK Dirt F1 banner. After much deliberation, it was decided that both formulas will run on the usual F1 night of Thursday night, with one meeting starting at 7:30pm (although this is subject to change) and the other starting at 9:00pm. Each league will alternate the start time each week eg week one, rFactor 7:30pm / Heat 9pm then week two Heat 7:30pm / rFactor 9pm.This will mean that both F1 mods get a full season of fixtures, and not the half a season that alternate weeks would have given us. We decided against running one league on a different night due to the fact it would be going against another formula, and we decided this was not fair to that formula to effectively be competing against it. Winter Admin Changes There have been quite a few changes over the winter months in the F1 Admin Team. First of all as announced at the end of last season, DanSkin has decided to step down from his role as Head of F1 Admin Team. He will however be staying in the team in an advisory role, and may even race manage the odd meeting. I will take over this role, and become Head Admin for both the Heat and rFactor F1 Leagues. With F1 now running two leagues, we felt that we would need to expand the F1 Admin team, and have a small reformation. It was decided that we would split into two Admin teams; one which will run the rFactor League, and one which will run the Heat League. All of the same faces still remain (Big Al, Crewesader, Grasser, Kev, Michael and MoR), but they will now be joined by Aub, Drumbstick, Fourwinds, Kruiz, Radduz and Sybe. We would like to welcome to them the F1 Admin team. Therefore the formation of the F1 Admin Team is as follows: Head of F1: Johno Heat Team: Aub, Big Al, Crewesader, Radduz, Sybe rFactor Team: Drumbstick, Fourwinds, Grasser, Kruiz, Michael, MoR Points Manager for both leagues: Kev Advisory Role: DanSkin Heat vs rFactor As you all know, at the end of last year, we had a vote to see which mod the members wanted. The vote came out a tie, and we could clearly see that choosing one mod over the other would split UK Dirt F1 in half. This is why the conclusion of running both leagues was decided. With you the members now having both leagues running, the time has come to put to bed the debate over which is better. We fully accept that members will have their preference, and although we wish to encourage members to give both leagues a fair crack, we fully accept that members may well race one or the other, but what we wish to put an end to is the constant arguing or debating over which is best and which should be run. Both mods are being run, therefore this should please everyone, and constant arguing and debating does not benefit either of the leagues. Suggestion Threads You should now see at the top of both the Heat and rFactor forums 2008 Suggestion Threads. The Heat one is available here, and the rFactor one available here. These are for you to make your suggestions for the 2008 season. Please try and put your suggestion for each formula on the appropriate thread, but should you have a suggestion that you think will affect both formulas, then please send it to me and I will post it on our Admin Forum for discussion. The deadline for the suggestion threads is Wednesday 6th February, as we have an admin meeting planned for the beginning of February and wish to discuss your suggestions then. Finally….. This could possibly be the best season that UK Dirt F1’s have ever seen. We just hope that you will support the team and all their efforts to make this a season to remember. Cheers Johno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scrapman53 Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 7.30 doesn't suit me, so I think I'll give it a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) not the best start times imo,i can see meeting finishing nearer 11pm mayb be possible to run both at same time as we got enough chat rooms and race servers(may not b fair on lads that wish to do both ) wednesday nite fortnightly with ssc or rods as they are going rfactor i like idea of rods and rf f1 each other week Edited January 31, 2008 by Pedz 212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno3 Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I am going to try and answer a few of the comments above. 7.30 doesn't suit me, so I think I'll give it a miss. I am sorry to hear this. We did however fully expect that there may well be a few more people in your boat, this is why we decided to rotate the start time, so that people like yourself get the chance to do at least half of the meetings should you wish to do so. We are working on the finer details and the fixtures as we speak, but it is highly likely that most championships where possible will be nearer to the traditional 8:30pm start time, although I cant confirm this at this point. not the best start times imo,i can see meeting finishing nearer 11pm The average meeting last season finished between 10pm and 10:15pm. That means that the second meeting will finish between 10:30pm and 10:45pm on average. This is like it used to be in the old days. We have become a little spoilt in how quick race managers run the meetings, partly due to the amount of servers we have aquired, but I dont think an extra half an hour is too much tbh. Should it be too much of a problem, then on the late meetings you could always not race the grand nationals, which will save you another 10/15 mins. I can assure you that the second meeting will start prompt on 9pm, which is part of the reason why the 7:30pm start time is under discussion, as we may have to move this forward 10 minutes. mayb be possible to run both at same time as we got enough chat rooms and race servers(may not b fair on lads that wish to do both ) Yes your right, we do have enough servers, but the idea is to enourage people to race both. This means trying to tempt people to try rFactor and getting people to continue with Heat. As the vote outcome suggests, this dabte has split F1 in half, therefore running heat F1's against rFactor F1's will only split F1 in half, and then you will find people are not willing to try rFactor, or stick with Heat. wednesday nite fortnightly with ssc or rods as they are going rfactor i like idea of rods and rf f1 each other week This was one of the possibilites that we talked about, but we dont feel it is fair and beneficial to ther formulas, and UK Dirt on the whole, if one formual goes up against the other. The other thing to bare in mind is that you would only get 16 meetings, and by the time you have the championship meetings and world qualifiers in there, there isn't enough room. I would like to say that this decision was not made because I woke up this morning and thought this is what we will do. It has been discussed throughout the F1 Admin Team, and well as the General Admin Teams as well. This discussion has gone on since Septemeber of last year when we knew that this could well be a possible option with the members rather than picking one mod or the other. I hope this helps explain how we came to certain decisions. I can't help but think everyone tries to look for the negatives in everything rather than some of the positives. This way we can have a full season using both mods, and then see where we go from there. Cheers Johno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulp23 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I am glad ukdirt is running the rFactor F1 mod i'm looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinter Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Think each mod would be better with static times, not alternating each week. and for me personally I cant race at 7:30 anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I think it will only make rfactor better even though I aint played the mod (not yet anyway) I think the start times are good in my opinion so please dont shoot me down if you disagree. walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 How will driver grades be decided not only for the beginning of the season but also for those who join during the season ??? Maybe drivers have to do five laps prior to the meeting to show competence and their grade decided from that (as they may have to submit all grade of skins). Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 wouldnt it be easier for rfactor to just run on a saturday or something unlike other of the ukdirt mods/leagues that way it can start whatever time needs be and gives people time to prepare ie. not rushing home from work havin tea and chat to the family etc, then jumping on with little practice from that day??? for me the 7:30 is ok, just 9pm seems a bit too far fetched in the meaning meeting has to finish at around 11/11:30. Just my opinion, lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) how many ssc lads race rf f1 ? not many me thinks (leek39) lee most go real life racing sat/sunday Edited January 31, 2008 by Pedz 212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew413 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 It's good that we've got two leagues, best way forward in my opinion. Personally I will struggle to make 7.30 some weeks, bit too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzer Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Good luck to the admin, its a brave move but one which I hope is successfull, I hope to venture out once or twice during the season at either start time Some people just cant help moaning eh? P.S im a w(s)hite roof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Beef Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Decision made we will have to live with it. On a personal note both start times ok but I work away a lot through the week so may miss quite a few meetings. Would have liked rfactor to stay on Sunday nights. Mr Beef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALi P Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Johno You have mentioned earlier than you would prefer positive comments rather than negative ones, but it is difficult not to make comment in such manner when the result will be a complete mess up of my Thursday evenings. You also say that discussions have been ongoing since September, with whom? With all due respect the only question I have seen asked of us, the ordinary racer, was on a thread heat v RF, via a survey, and that only asked which do you prefer! Where has been the consulation on points such as prefered times/ race nights/ would you do both/ etc? Why are we only now being asked for our "suggestions"via the threads on heat and RF? BTW the result of the heat v RF was, so we are led the believe, a tie. Again, is that all the feedback we are going to get, not even how many people voted, not even a glimpse of any salient comments emminating from the survey? Personally speaking, I believe that if we are to have two different race mods for F1, both in effect different to race in so many ways, then I feel that a different race night completely should be the only way forward, as not only is the plan fraught with time constraint issues for drivers juggling everyday life, but for the ones who do want to race both codes then I do not think it is fair to jump from one to the other on the same evening. I do agree that it would appear that a decision has been made, but I think it only fair we are allowed an opportunity to make our feelings known, and I have tried very much Johno, really I have, to be constructive. I appreciate that these suggestions should be in the appropriate thread, but I have followed the lead of others on that so I apologise in advance. I agree Mav, I do think that you should have to do 5 laps of practice to determine your grade....... in your case in heat though ALi P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scrapman53 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I totally agree with AliP here. I don't know why or how 14 people can just make decisions like this and expect everyone to follow suit? Sureley you could've given us some options then went with what the majority wanted? I really wanted to race rFactor if a league started, but really don't see the point in doing 1/2 the meetings in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I agree Mav, I do think that you should have to do 5 laps of practice to determine your grade....... in your case in heat though ALi P Did think that I had better get my stabalizers out also!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew413 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I didn't want to sound negative earlier, so I'll try and make it constructive. I'm very grateful that the rFactor mod will have a proper league, but I suspect the above decision will compromise both rfactor and heat, rather than make people want to race in either or both. I cant imagine there'll be many people who have the time/inclination to race in both series on the same night - most of us can't race from 7-11 (which is the realistic timeframe), so you might as well have a more normal start time and run both leagues at 8pm. I know for a fact I won't be able to make most of the 7.30 meetings, so what's the point in me racing at the 9pm meetings? It's not like I'll be able to challenge for any points titles and I'll probably never go up a grade due to not racing enough. At the very least it should have been put to the public to get an idea of the reaction I don't mean to cause offence, but the people who've made this decision are likely those who are able to dedicate more time to this than most of us, so it may not be an accurate representation of the general consensus. We do pay for the servers after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathyboy81 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) With respect Ali P and Scrapman (& Matthew), you are both coming at this with colours pretty firmly nailed to different masts. Its not my place to say if the responses should be made public, I personally don't see the point, but the majority of votes on both sides indicated that people would race the other mod if their vote wasn't carried. This was especially true among the Heat votes, accepting that Rfactor was the longer term future of the UK Dirt league, but for various reasons feeling that March 2008 would be too early for them to be racing it. Chances are by 2009 Heat will be properly dead - the new F2 season has seen awarp problems even with the improved servers we now have - and an rfactor F2 mod and Hot Rods will hopefully be in use. IMO the decison taken was correct, it gives people a chance to continue to race Heat, but also for rfactor to grow - if it was just an rfactor league I can see an opening meeting turnout of 25/30 maybe, whereas Heat will get 40+ almost definitely - just because most people have it and can show up. The staggered times will effect everyone, I can't see anyone racing all the meetings in both mods, there are plenty of people in UK Dirt who have lives. Edited January 31, 2008 by bathyboy81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael2 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) You also say that discussions have been ongoing since September, with whom? With all due respect the only question I have seen asked of us, the ordinary racer, was on a thread heat v RF, via a survey, and that only asked which do you prefer! Discussions have been going on within the F1 Admin team since September. Once the season finished in November we began to come up with the best way possible for a decision to be made (at the time most likely Heat or Rfactor). We (the F1 Admin team) decided the best way would be to ask all F1 drivers past, present and future to let us know which of the two they would want to race in 2008, why they made than decision, and if the decision to run the other mod to their choice was taken, would they continute to race (to gauge how many potential racers we could lose). Once the results were in it was obvious there were plently of people who still wanted Heat to continue and the same amount of people who wanted a new challenge with Rfactor. So again we decided that instead of running the one mod, to try and keep everyone happy, we would run the two. Where has been the consulation on points such as prefered times/ race nights/ would you do both/ etc? During our discussions, the big stumbling block was the day & time. Suggestions for alternative nights were made but this is UK Dirt not just UK Dirt F1's, so running on any other week night means clashing with another mod/league which (we and other Head Admins) is not in the best interests of UK Dirt. So therefore this left us with Thursday nights or Weekends. Now from a personal point of view I don't think any league should run its season on a weekend when the real life meetings start, as firstly I would miss plenty of meetings and secondly the league would really struggle for numbers. So we were left with Thursday and brought the idea forward of switching start times so that no neither mod had the probably better time slot of 8.30pm/9pm on a permanant basis. Why are we only now being asked for our "suggestions"via the threads on heat and RF? The suggestions thread is up now as a decision has been made for 2008 and we want feedback from all drivers on what we can improve on from 2007, and any new ideas people may have for the upcoming season(s). The decision made was not something we came up with in 5 minutes and we obviously realise it is not going to be convienient for everyone but we have tried to make a decision that would satisfy as many people as possible and given everyone the opportunity to race Heat and/or Rfactor under the UK Dirt banner. Edited January 31, 2008 by Michael2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALi P Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 'bathyboy81' "With respect Ali P and Scrapman (& Matthew), you are both coming at this with colours pretty firmly nailed to different masts. Its not my place to say if the responses should be made public, I personally don't see the point, but the majority of votes on both sides indicated that people would race the other mod if their vote wasn't carried. This was especially true among the Heat votes, accepting that Rfactor was the longer term future of the UK Dirt league, but for various reasons feeling that March 2008 would be too early for them to be racing it. " Cheers for reply Bathy, as even though you have indicated that you dont see the point in responses being made public, (fair shout), in your comments, reading between the lines you have managed to fill some gaps, and give me some answers, or indications to how "drivers" generally voted, so again thank you for that. Personally, whilst I indicated in my survey back in November that I would race Heat and wasnt sure about RF, I am honestly not sure if that is now what I would do now, as I have indicated somewhere else I currently only have RF as a racing mod on my computer, so maybe scrapman and I are not as far apart as you have presumed!! (I have Scottish blood in me too, believe it or not!!) I will still say that a planned 7.30, or 10 minutes earlier on occasions based on Johno's comment, is a tad early, particularly if the practice session pre the meeting is your one chance in that week to firm up your set up "in practice". Also thank you to Mike for your comments, which further endorse the thought process behind the choices made, but I make no apologies for saying again decisions of this magnitude should have the buy in from the majority of drivers who wish to take part, the choices made on our behalf may actually be valid and correct, but I cannot help feeling that a little bit of empowerment would have gone a long long way. Ali P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 In my current situation a 7:30pm start would be touch and go, dependant on traffic in town as to whether I could get home in time. (My daughter swims from 6pm to 7pm). This would mean however, no practice time pre meeting, and maybe miss my first heat but most of all no TEA !!!!! lol If I was to race in a 7:30pm start meeting, I wouldn't necessarily race the 9pm meeting and visa versa (dependant on whether I chose Heat or rFactor to race), I would like to be confident that I am going to get a full meeting ie not cancel the Grand Nationals. If they were cancelled, to allow the next mod to start at 9pm or to prevent a very late finish, this to me is not acceptable, as those drivers attending are penalised in National Points and Grand National Points championships. I have often gone home from real meetings disgusted that I have paid for a full meeting and been shortchanged, let alone what a long travelling driver feels like. If the plan of 7:30pm / 9pm goes ahead I personally would like assurances that each meeting will be concluded even if they ran "overtime". If Grand Nationals are to be cancelled during the season then I feel that a Grand National Championship should not be run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinter Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Decision made we will have to live with it. On a personal note both start times ok but I work away a lot through the week so may miss quite a few meetings. Would have liked rfactor to stay on Sunday nights. Mr Beef Well I wont have to live with it. Unfortunatly I wont be subscribing to jolt again this year. I know its impossible to please everybody with decissions but the only thing I can see in regard to the start times, instead of making things awkward for a few, you have made it awkward for a lot more people by then alternating the start-times every week. For me I think they should both start at 8:30. I know there are small negs to that as well, but there's only 3 or 4 regular-ish drivers that race both mods, most members have by now chosen to race one or the other (either now or in the future when they upgrade) I agree with Scrapman and was previously going to cover some of the same points made by AliP but decided not to waste my breath until I had thought about the pros and cons all round. I too enjoyed the Sunday nights, I would think nearly everyone would get back from a meeting by the start time. My issue isnt about the start times or the nights raced. Its how ridiculous decisions can be made about the alternating start times of two of the major mods of UKDirt. ...and secondly the league would really struggle for numbers. So we were left with Thursday and brought the idea forward of switching start times so that no neither mod had the probably better time slot of 8.30pm/9pm ...so instead of a sensible start time for at least one mod, it means that both mods will have to suffer. Seems like a cop-out decision to not go one way or the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathyboy81 Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) For me I think they should both start at 8:30. I know there are small negs to that as well, but there's only 3 or 4 regular-ish drivers that race both mods, As I said earlier the responses to the questions asked just don't bear that out. Its not a black and white 'I will race Heat OR rfactor' for the majority, its more a question of degrees of participation. My own view on this is that if there was no Heat league I would race maybe 5 rfactor meetings in the season, if it was just Heat I would race at least 10 just because I can arrive and drive. If both are run chances are I will race all those. The times maybe won't suit and I may have to miss the odd meeting on a track I like at one mod, but thats life. Its how ridiculous decisions can be made about the alternating start times of two of the major mods of UKDirt. With respect, initially at least, in terms of numbers rfactor F1s is going to be 4th mod in UK Dirt compared to Heat F2s, Bangers, Heat F1s, possibly even 5th behind Brisca Legends. This isn't stirring any Heat v Factor arguments just the maths of the situation. In that sort of context the decision was taken for the whole of UK Dirt. Edited February 1, 2008 by bathyboy81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 looked like this thread r factor would be better with 9pm start and heat 730pm may work then with a lot off r factor lads cant make 730 start hopeful most racers would do both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Maybe it would be worth a poll to see whether the current R-Factor racers would prefer to keep their Sunday night slot as opposed to sharing Thursdays with Heat. I would have thought this would have been a better scenario for those wanting to do both as it will give them time to re-adapt to the other mod and work on setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruiz 136 Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Maybe it would be worth a poll to see whether the current R-Factor racers would prefer to keep their Sunday night slot as opposed to sharing Thursdays with Heat. I would have thought this would have been a better scenario for those wanting to do both as it will give them time to re-adapt to the other mod and work on setups. But most F1 and F2 fans would be at real life meetings, I know I would be and with some tracks 4+ hours away (I don't know how far other people travel) I personally wouldn't be back in time to race, I assume this is the same for other people. Edited February 1, 2008 by Kruiz 136 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) Maybe it would be worth a poll to see whether the current R-Factor racers would prefer to keep their Sunday night slot as opposed to sharing Thursdays with Heat. I would have thought this would have been a better scenario for those wanting to do both as it will give them time to re-adapt to the other mod and work on setups. But most F1 and F2 fans would be at real life meetings, I know I would be and with some tracks 4+ hours away (I don't know how far other people travel) I personally wouldn't be back in time to race, I assume this is the same for other people. Hence the poll!! We all have choices in life Edited February 1, 2008 by welly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza46 Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 f2's have been running a few meets with 7:30 starts and turn outs have been big everytime, so i cant see the problem personally. times are fine by me admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewesader Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Lo All, We all seem to be forgetting that the new season doesnt start until March. This suggestion thread is another guide WE as ADMIN will take into account when we have our meeting to discuss the pro,s and cons, of having split start times for meets or run both at same time, there are enough servers to allow this option, but again ALL decisions made by Admin are for the benefit of UKDirt not just UKDirt F1. It would also be nice to hear from those F1 racers who have BETTER suggestions for F1 Thursdays, not just those who 1 suggested method doesnt suit, this is not a dig at anyone who has posted just an appeal for your IDEAS to help out. As you know I am an Admin member so this is my time I give up for the benefit of ALL in our League,s, dont just complain give your views on what you want. Crewesader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveW329 Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Well here's my 3 1/2 pence worth, The whole idea of running Heat and Rfactor on 1 night is a poor one imo as 1 mod will suffer each week with a low turnout due to time constraints, If you intend to run both types of Mod then they need to be run seperately on different days at a set time to maximise the turnouts and help the learners to rfactor ease in more. Just by reading this thread you can see already people pulling out with 2 months to go before start of season due to times of meeting and i'd say also i would be another 7.30 is too early for me but also finishing at 10.30 -11 is too late and this is without a single thing going wrong. Personally think admin need to re-think the whole idea of running both mods on same day. Nezza - There are a wider variety of ftooz drivers compared with F1 and that reflects in the turnouts Crewe - Not nit picking this is actually a statement from admin not a suggestion thread as that has no replies as of typing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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