The missing drivers....

[Matty300]

Just occured to me when looking at the number of views of each meeting's results on the forum that upwards of 200 people view them, yet 16 people turn up to compete most F1 meetings...

Begs the question who are these people & why aren't they competing if the results are of interest to them? Are the current "hardcore", i.e. those that turn up week in week out, happy to keep it to 16(ish) cars at each meeting, or would they like to see more cars on the grid?And if yes then how do we get them turning up? Any thoughts welcome

[Samwit]

I agree Matty, F2s alike as many people look at results and on the website, there are lots of registered members but not many race. If say 35 above raced then we could have 2/3rds, 2 or 3 heats a meeting with point scorers finals instead of having most meetings with all in Finals.

[southy277]

It definalty would be better having a few more drivers. I know a few that would have a go but want a trial meeting before paying the fee.......

 

Unfortuantly i will have to miss the odd meeting here and there (first one being Skeggy tonight) but will be at most meetings.

Edited April 14, 2011 by southy277

[drumbstick]

There are a number of reasons registered members don't race, for instance I always look at the results on a Friday morning as I have a number of mates that race but I physically don't have the time to race ftooz, work on mods, and keep the missus happy.

 

Five simple things I can think of that could raise participation, and at least the first three would take no more than a little organisation.

 

1.) Counter posted on the ftooz forum that there are not practice nights like there used to be. We could have practice sessions on say a Sunday evening tooz from 7:30 to 9 and 1s from 9 onwards, remove the password from the server and get new drivers interacting with UKDirt, and getting practice without having to be plunged straight in to a meeting(No reason towards the end of the session some races could not be run, we did this prior to the open). These would obviously have to be policed by admin, but there are enough F1 and F2 admin to do it on a rota.

 

2.) Have some sort of help team, where people can be available named members could be avaliable by email, MSN or even teamspeak to help people get things set-up and working we get a lot of feedback that people would like to race but have no idea how or where to start.

 

3.) More open meetings, look how many drivers raced the F2 open meeting(Quite a few then joined), and that was not publicised anywhere near as well as it could of been. Again this is a try before you buy.

 

4.) Have a big join here button on the website, its far to difficult to actually work out how to join and pay.

 

5.) Have a more competitive pricing structure!!

 

 

[Counter552]

There are a number of reasons registered members don't race, for instance I always look at the results on a Friday morning as I have a number of mates that race but I physically don't have the time to race ftooz, work on mods, and keep the missus happy.

 

Five simple things I can think of that could raise participation, and at least the first three would take no more than a little organisation.

 

1.) Counter posted on the ftooz forum that there are not practice nights like there used to be. We could have practice sessions on say a Sunday evening tooz from 7:30 to 9 and 1s from 9 onwards, remove the password from the server and get new drivers interacting with UKDirt, and getting practice without having to be plunged straight in to a meeting(No reason towards the end of the session some races could not be run, we did this prior to the open). These would obviously have to be policed by admin, but there are enough F1 and F2 admin to do it on a rota.

 

2.) Have some sort of help team, where people can be available named members could be avaliable by email, MSN or even teamspeak to help people get things set-up and working we get a lot of feedback that people would like to race but have no idea how or where to start.

 

3.) More open meetings, look how many drivers raced the F2 open meeting(Quite a few then joined), and that was not publicised anywhere near as well as it could of been. Again this is a try before you buy.

 

4.) Have a big join here button on the website, its far to difficult to actually work out how to join and pay.

 

5.) Have a more competitive pricing structure!!

 

Cracking post Drumbstick

 

I was thinking about posting something similar on the Rods forum to get more interest before it dies completely.

Having raced the F2s for the first time in 3 years the other week, the first time I found out how far off the pace I was, was in the meeting as there is no practice.

From memory, I think we used to have more fun in the practice meetings and races than the proper meetings where some always take it too seriously.

 

I also agree that the registration and joining process is too complicated, I probably know that the most as I administer it. I don't have the technical skills to change it, but would be very interested to talk to any member who would be willing to help simplify it if they have the appropriate technical skills for the website and databases.

 

[Counter552]

Sorry, just spotted your point 5 .......

 

We have tried all sort of promotions, reduced fees, free months etc and it hasn't had much impact on the number of members.

 

The renewal fees over the last 2 years have been £5 and £10, average of £7.50 which is competitive compared to other options available and 30 - 40 actually win their fee and pay no renewal fee at all.

 

We should consider making the joining process easier and cheaper - we have previously considered removing the one-off joining fee of £5 which was designed to deter timewasters and troublemakers.

 

An option would be to remove the joining fee and allow registered members access to practice sessions for 2 weeks before they pay anything. There would need to be practice sessions for this to work.

All General Admin and 2nd Tier Admin would have to be happy to take on the extra hassle associated with this but it would probably help with new members.

 

Over the last 2 years it has cost us more to run the race servers, databases and forum than we have taken in fees, so it is a tricky balancing act to set the fees at a level where we can continue to pay all the outgoings with the number who want to race with ukdirt. We can continue for a long time before this becomes a problem, I just need to find the level where reduced fees actually generates more new members than we lose by charging less!

 

What are peoples thoughts/views on this - maybe we should move this post to the General section to get some wider input?

[Pusher_2]

I believe a key thing is to have joint meeting dates,i.e F1 and F2 on the same night. Now that meetings are finished in 1 hour 30 mins surely we can have F1 and f2 on the same night? I would love to race F1 but cant make the extra night a week presently.

[TRAV365]

some great points made by Drumb and Pusher.

For me the main point is how do we get new faces to join up and race unless you knew ukdirt was going theres never much advertisment of it anywhere im not sure if theres any money in the kity

or how much it would cost but how about trying a small advert in say stoxworld.

[Counter552]

some great points made by Drumb and Pusher.

For me the main point is how do we get new faces to join up and race unless you knew ukdirt was going theres never much advertisment of it anywhere im not sure if theres any money in the kity

or how much it would cost but how about trying a small advert in say stoxworld.

 

I think Kendo has summed it up nicely on the F2's results section why we have so many missing drivers

 

In terms of advertising, drumbstick has been talking with ORN about a regular slot and a sponsorship deal, not sure how that is progressing.

We have tried promotion offers on the online versions of stoxworld, didn't really make much difference - happy for you to investigate something for Stoxworld if you think it would attract some newbies - probably be better if we could promote it around some "open" type of meetings to allow people to try first and join at a discount if they had raced in an open meeting.

That would give us something to advertise?

[Mav]

Kendo's F2 Reply,

 

I'm FILTERED off with all of the moaning wankers going on this FILTERED mod recently.........

 

If you've got a complaint about standards then FILTERED complain as per the rules or get your revenge back on the FILTERED track like everyone else does and how it's been since ukdirt started in 2000.

 

The amount of whining is rediculous.

Tonight i've been accused of being a stupid driver, following someone in (twice), lap downing and rejoining in front of others.

 

Watch the FILTERED replays before you moan

Stupid driving.....battling with the leader in the final?????? Are you having a laugh - what the FILTERED are we all racing for?

Following someone in......watch the replay and you'll see i was braking.

Rejoining in front of others.......I half spun while in about 3rd place then built up speed again on the inside on the track so as not to get stuck on the outside of the track with about 4/5 drivers overtaking me on the inside......you want my place then your going to have to work for it cause you ain't FILTERED having it!!!!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Have to agree with Kendo 100% as a fellow lower grader and for reasons below.

 

Last year I was all for giving it a good go, as I hadn't really taken to rFactor as much as heat for several reasons. I purchased a £1000 computer, bought another wheel and practiced more than ever before.

I even introduced Simon to racing and thought that the extra challenge between us would spice it up for us. I know that I am a target for winding up and having a go at me on track, but I factor that in when competing.

 

But what I found being a lower grader was:

 

1) No tolerance for lower graders, they are abused and easy targets to blame for others mistakes.

2) No real practice sessions where other drivers would help - Heat days the practice after the meeting would set you up for the next meeting and give you a "Can't wait" for next week feeling. This session would go well past midnight.

3) Rfactor meeting is completely void of making you feel part of a community, least with heat you all met in chat and had a laugh and you got to know new drivers, plenty of banter etc. When the race was called again you went to the server and had a chat prior to clicking "GO" - then the serious bit kicked in and enjoyment was had by most. After the race all back to chat (either race chat or mirc chat). Everybody did things as a unit/community.

RFactor is the complete opposite - you are alone - you practice alone, you turn up in the server alone, you cannot have a private conversation, conversations go on whilst you are on track and its off putting. You are judged by what you do on track, not by what you say in chat - for example in Heat, Travel was liked by all for his outgoingness in chat dispite being the most feared on track, but in contrast everyone dislikes Harmen because of what he does on track, yet no-one has got to know him via chat. He could be a very likeable guy??

4) Practice prior to the meeting : Drivers mess about in pits, then muck about on track - this may seem trivial but when you are trying to learn what the car is doing as a lower grader, the practice time is important. If we cannot get an acceptable drive in practice, its no wonder we can't get it right in the meeting and why so many mistakes are made by us. How many new people will know how bad the tyres go off at the end of a race, How many will know how to stop this happening?? I didn't and still don't; I just drove the best I could till the end of the race; mostly on the edge but quite often going over the cliff (as they say in F1 GP) thus making errors, causing incidents.

5) I fully understand that the reds etc need to keep momentum going to create the perfect lap, but this isn't Hot-Rods, other drivers are allowed to get in the way, but the on track brutal dealings some drivers have with lower graders coupled with the "Verbal Abuse" afterwards is anything but a complete turn off. Simon had this with drivers at the end of last season, and he just didn't understand what he had done except try his best and maintain his position. He was gutted and lost interest. He now wants to give it a go again, but I fear for him. I stuck it out in heat - Just!! - dispite all the verbal abuse and fencings, but in rFactor the abuse seems more personal and direct, maybe thats because I don't know current rFactor drivers in real life or maybe they just don't want a driver like me racing.

 

I never felt part of UK Dirt when I raced rFactor, like I did with Heat and I suppose with being able to make the comparison between the two times makes it harder for me to accept rFactor. The hassle of a new computer, a new wheel, setting it up for practice and meetings, taking it down again to work on computer, added to the "bullying" on track, "verbal abuse" of top drivers - just doesn't seem worth doing compared to Heat. Plenty of practice, getting to know drivers (I have met more heat drivers at real meetings and had a great laugh with them, but cannot remember meeting any non heat rFactor drivers at real meetings), racing on keys (no setting up) - Heat was really "Plug and Go" stuff. Much simpler for people to grasp.

 

UK Dirt rFactor to me has become "Elitist". The drivers who can do it, are able to race side by side, lap after lap and get a real buzz from doing so - BUT get a lower grader in the way and blood vessels burst and they let rip. What I can see are out of the 20 drivers who currently race, at least 12 are really competitive, the remainder make up the numbers but still can get round with Waqar (How does he find the enthusiam to race when so many people are at him all the time??) bring up the rear. Problem is those 12 at the top don't want any more Waqar's joining because it takes away their own enjoyment of perfect laps and wheel to wheel racing. Those that do want more Waqar's to join are the lower graders, who then have a bit more competition for themselves and also means that they don't have to race the same 12 top drivers over and over again. How are they ever going to amass points when the same 12 drivers are taking up the first 10 places???

I fully inderstand that with only 20 drivers its difficult to mix it up, and whites & yellows races dont amount to much due to car numbers, but from my point of view I feel that I have no chance of doing anything in a meeting because the competition is far too strong; and if I feel I have no chance, then odds on I am not going to enjoy it. The best I could hope for is to maintain a yellow roof, and being yellow for years is not what I consider a challenge, I would want to be able to fight for a red roof but as I said before the competition is too strong. I wonder if this is why so many new drivers have turned to Sim-Stox rather than UK Dirt??

 

Nobody seems to want to race Heat anymore as I have had very little response from UK Dirt members, so rFactor is the only option and for those that have invested in it want to see a return on their investment. But those who can't invest or just does not like the idea of rFactor have simply gone away. All I know is that at Heats height of popularity we had 60 drivers racing at anyone time in any main mod - but now in rfactor you have 20 drivers after 3 or so years of running.

 

rFactor just seems very technical to understand from the word go, for people completely new to it, its not a simple game to get into on your own, to me it has to spread by word of mouth and then helped by those spreading the word. Simon often comes home and starts playing a new game because his mates are playing it, but before that he never knew the game existed. On the flip side of that you don't want a load of 12 year olds joining!!

 

I sincerely hope a solution can be found to attract more drivers to UK Dirt as its been a wonderful community over the years, but for now, for me, I will watch how Simon gets on - maybe it will give me hope that I can do it - or maybe it will confirm why I don't do it

[southy277]

I understand where you are coming from Mav. I think that UK Dirt is miles fairer than SS and hence the reason why i made the swap. There were to many drivers out there just to spoil others racing.

 

Yes, i have made a few mistakes by hitting the power switch too early and spining or braking too late but i never mean them and always apologise after.

 

End of the day everyone makes little mistakes for various reasons. I have had some good racing along side the top lads and most have been fair, a few taps here and there and then a bigger one to get past. A few drivers use the 'must fence the driver in front' or 'he is passing me so i will turn in on him and force him to the fence' mind set which does start getting too much. If that was real life you would get called to the racing board.

 

So to be fair the league is miles better and hopefully any new drivers that join will continue this. The only thing i would add is that drivers should look out for the leaders coming through. Sometimes you pass a backmarker and they end up attacking you and i have had a few potential wins taken away from me as i am sure other drivers are in the same boat. I always end up racing round the outside close to the fence if being lapped (although some drivers still can't get through the 2/3 of the track i leave them lol)

 

Keep up the good work UK Dirt.

 

P.S - Get a open meeting setup. I know 2 drivers that will have a go. If it runs well i'm sure they will join.

[drumbstick]

Some good points there Mav, especially about the lack of opportunity for banter compared to the past, its defiantly something we need to look at recreating.

 

I do have some issues with some of the things you say though, I know in your opinion I fall in to the "Elitist" category you refer to and that's fine but lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment.

 

I only did a couple of meetings in heat, where except for some good help from Welly I struggled with everything you are describing. I got accused of fencing a red grade driver in the 1 F1 meeting I did, and him threatening he would just fence me whenever I raced in future, when infact I bounced of the kerb trying to give him room and get out of the way.

 

In the first F2 meeting I took a lot of stick from drivers moaning I was to low graded, most of it with them talking about me like I was not there after I had sent a PM to the admin before I raced letting them know I had won championships elsewhere all be it in rFactor.

 

Then when I started racing ftooz full time on rFactor, I had established drivers saying things about me and interpreting things in ways they were never meant and to be honest it felt quite a bit like bullying to me.

 

My point here is not that UKDirt is bad or even an unfriendly place I love racing here(A number of people I have met through here will be at my wedding next month), but a lot of what goes on is interpretation and believe me I have raced in a wide variety of leagues (Most of which don't have the intentional contact aspect to deal with) all the way up to the evil of iRacing(I was in a practice session with ALBZ the other day, a name from the past) and at most places it is a lot worse than here and actually I think we have moved on a lot since those heat days(maybe because I am now at the other end of the grid?) and there is a lot more help to be had, I know UKDirt admin members who regularly connect to other peoples PCs to help them with problems or to initially get going and I did suggest above that we expand on this idea to help people.

 

Most "Elitist" drivers want to see large grids, and especially in tooz most agree its about to many cars on a small track(Tom has won 4 finals this year, only in one of them was he the fastest car, but he has been head and shoulders better than anyone else in traffic) and that in a number of races you are going to be held up by some of the carnage in front of you its part of the racing. 99% of the complaints the "Elitist" drivers generally moan about is when a car is spun and they just pull straight back in to traffic, there is no excuse for this in rFactor and it can ruin 50% of the fields race with the ensuing pile up. With the virtual mirrors and look left and right buttons, and its something we really need to come up with a way of educating people about.

 

Point 5 is an interesting one, but look at it from an "Elitist" drivers point of view. If I catch you I don't expect you to move over, and I won't fence you, what I will do is try to nudge you just hard enough to run up the inside and loose us both the minimum amount of time. Now going in to the next turn if you decide you want to have a go back that's fine and part of racing, but the next opportunity I get where I can make sure I can move you and you won't get back at me I will take, be it a parked car, traffic or just a big hit. Now with me I am generally quite placid and you get a few chances, however if you use all your chances up then you will get the latter treatment each time I catch you until you prove otherwise. For some drivers that's what racing is all about, and what they enjoy and I respect(applaud it to a certain extent) that but I will be trying to make sure they hold me up as little as possible.

 

Also if you are a lap down, and you start having a go(I remember Aub being spun out from the lead last year from a certain lap down car) then you use your chances up much quicker.

 

We are looking at introducing a mod easier to drive than what we currently have as I agree they can take a reasonable amount of practice for some people to be up to speed, hopefully some more news on that soon.

 

Finally, if you take a look at the F2 numbers between Sim-Stox and here there were probably over 70 regular drivers at the start of the year and this has now evened out to between 50 and 60, its just they are spread over two promotions not 1 I really wish everyone could get on and we could have multi promotion season with the drivers having more people at there speed to race, as they do in real life but it appears that the people that matter really don't want this to happen .

[LeeK39]

Finally, if you take a look at the F2 numbers between Sim-Stox and here there were probably over 70 regular drivers at the start of the year and this has now evened out to between 50 and 60, its just they are spread over two promotions not 1 I really wish everyone could get on and we could have multi promotion season with the drivers having more people at there speed to race, as they do in real life but it appears that the people that matter really don't want this to happen .

 

Shame it didnt work with Saloons but to be honest it did leave a sour taste considering we still to this day havnt been told 'officially' that Simstox didnt want to run a joint season with UKDirt. We were politely warned that this might happen in the lead up but nothing was confirmed until it was put on their website fixture list. Shame really but this is how it goes these days I suppuse.

 

As for mavs points and other mentioned, I do agree that the 'community' fell does seem to have deminished since rFactor started and that is partly due to the design of the game itsself (oh and you can PM in server. The way I do it is type /w LeeK39 for example then the message and it 'Whispers' to the person whose name you entered) and also down to the lower numbers thus meaning we run more all in meetings and spend alot less time in MIRC char sitting around just chatting while other races are being run.

 

Drumb skimmed over the fact that we are looking at introducing some new mods to the fixtures which will hopefully work as a feeder series to the F1s and F2s in the fact that the new mods are easier to drive and enjoy with less setup time needed and giving the new drivers more confidence in racing rFactor as a while and hopefully meaning they step up to the F1s and F2s with a better knowledge of the game and workings as a whole. Keep an eye out for more details when we have them.

 

We are looking at promoting UKDirt better as Counter explained earlier and anyone with any further ideas on these matters post them up or send me a PM and we can look into them to try and make UKDirt more widely known in an ever changing community since when UKDirt was first started.

[wee dode]

Guessing that I also fall into mav's "Elitist" drivers but being honest from everything you said most of it aint true. Yes I am usually one of the first to moan but half the time its due to the fact that a lower grade driver and sometimes higher grade drivers just pull out infront of you or a car near you causing a pile up or in some way ruining your race.

 

I was a lower grader not too long ago after coming back to rfactor f2's as a blue roof I dropped to yellow and managed to work my way to red then to superstar. But I feel if you practice enough maybe a half hour every couple of days or whenever you can to have a play with the settings for the car to see what does what. This is what I done when I came back, just had a practice now and again to have a play in rfactor to get used to the car and how different settings on the car changed how it handles. As you say for newbies not wanting to race or us not helping them I rarely see a newbie asking for setup help. Not sure if its because they are scared to or something like that but im sure if they asked myself, drumbstick, tom or some of the other "Elitist" drivers as you say would help a lower grade driver get to grips with the game if they asked for setup or car help. I dont mind helping a newbie or someone who is struggling with a setup as I have helped Si#31 set up his computer for rfactor.

 

Some of the newbies or not so good drivers in both f1's and f2's I feel just need more practice and maybe more respect for higher grade drivers. For example Big Al moves over for some of us higher grade drivers when we come flying up behind him as in the end you can end up having a better race if you do that instead of getting pushed out the way and maybe getting wiped out while getting passed by a pack of cars. Now im not saying just because im superstar you should let me passed if your a lower grade driver, only offering advice from my past experience as a lower grader driver in both f1's and f2's.

[southy277]

That works both ways Dobe. You have pulled out on me twice and taken me out after you have spun / been spun. End of the day i'm sure what we are all gilty of doing it whether we mean to or not.

[wee dode]

That works both ways Dobe. You have pulled out on me twice and taken me out after you have spun / been spun. End of the day i'm sure what we are all gilty of doing it whether we mean to or not.

 

yeah understandable ive done it before but just seems theres a few that do it more often than others?

[Matty300]

3.) More open meetings, look how many drivers raced the F2 open meeting(Quite a few then joined), and that was not publicised anywhere near as well as it could of been. Again this is a try before you buy.

 

Of all the suggestions I feel that this seems the most workable, and with the right sort of promotion could well introduce some new blood to the F1 mod. As Southy points out, 2 people are waiting in the wings however want to test the mod out first without committing money. An open session with admin & regulars alike on hand to use chat to offer setup advice & technical help could pay dividends. Over to you admin

[drumbstick]

3.) More open meetings, look how many drivers raced the F2 open meeting(Quite a few then joined), and that was not publicised anywhere near as well as it could of been. Again this is a try before you buy.

 

Of all the suggestions I feel that this seems the most workable, and with the right sort of promotion could well introduce some new blood to the F1 mod. As Southy points out, 2 people are waiting in the wings however want to test the mod out first without committing money. An open session with admin & regulars alike on hand to use chat to offer setup advice & technical help could pay dividends. Over to you admin

 

Set-up nights with the current drivers giving out set-up and driving tips could also help maybe?

[Murf]

Atlast...... People are seeing there is a difference between Heat and Rfactor.... Heat is an arcade game modded to look like stockcar racing, where as Rfactor is a simulator that has been modded to look, feel and act like real life racing... As with most things in life people only remember the good points of their past even if it doesnt suit today... Ukdirt and heat was the first place you could take your weekend hobby home with you and meet up with the people you meet at the tracks, and thats where you got your community feel... Heat was a keyboard and if you splashed out, a joypad game, that you could play on any hand me down pc, but like everything else times and things change, and usually to the dislike of the 'oldschool'.. To enjoy Rfactor to its full, you need a good pc and a good wheel, FACT... Ive given out my setups on numerous occasions to those who I see trying, but never to a fool who hasnt got a clue... 1. No community.... Have to disagree, its just moved away from typing and now its teamspeak for me... 2. No practice.... Again I disagree, you want to practice with a clear track so you get used to the car then do it offline. If you know the times you are aiming for then theres the answer... When I moved to Rfactor all I did was offline practice.... 3. Now heres the key point for me and it wont go down well... DONT USE KEYS/PADS AND SWINGMAN!!! I went round a mates the other day and done a couple of laps with a pad, that was it, 2 laps and bored... The lack of feel, control and involvement was shocking... I take the racing quite seriously and others dont, its not the grade that matters its the ability to drive round an oval without reversing/pulling out without looking and thinking to yourself, 'Id better not fk someone elses race up' and become a complete nuisance which is automatically given to an old boy or numpty who thinks hes playing his playstation... To sum it up, if you promote the league as 'open to anyone with a keyboard' then you are going to lose those who like to race properly, standards fall and numbers will decrease and end up with good drivers thinking 'I ent gonna bother'.... Love from Murf....

Edited April 19, 2011 by Murf

[Matty300]

An option would be to remove the joining fee and allow registered members access to practice sessions for 2 weeks before they pay anything. There would need to be practice sessions for this to work.

All General Admin and 2nd Tier Admin would have to be happy to take on the extra hassle associated with this but it would probably help with new members.

 

Id be interested to know the views of the admin team members on these proposals as considering the original post was put up almost a week ago the official response has been underwhelming.Can an official response on the proposed "taster" sessions or "open weekends" be expected or are admin happy with the current number of 15 die-hards who turn up week in & week out to continue?. I feel that admin have a role to play in fostering a community feel & in promoting the mod's future, & whilst I dont totally agree with Mav's comments on elitism there is clearly work to be done in welcoming new people who want to try the mod out. Without an official response we are left to speculate on what those who run the mod really want & that can often be totally wide of the mark.C'mon admin, people are offering their time & expertise with set-ups here, do you want the help or not??

 

[Mike]

why no more 2 weeks trial period? like it used to be a couple of years back? and on the website and forum a big button to join the league will be a good start.

[big al 515]

I am pleased to hear moves towards an easier-to-drive feeder mod, and also that possible advertising of an open meeting(s) might happen, both sound good ideas.

I found myself empathising with virtually everything Mav said. The point I agree with most strongly is that the group of really fast drivers who have a great time racing each other really do give the impression they don't want people getting in the way, and often that means new drivers who are having a nightmare trying to adjust, get abused in chat, often on their debut, and may well think to themselves that I aren't wanted & I don't need this.

How about introducing a ban on comments (other than positive ones) about a new driver in chat or the forum for at least their 1st three meetings?

[Counter552]

Some good constructive points are being raised.

 

I'm trying to organise a General Admin AGM to discuss how we move some of these forward.

As always, most of us already spend way too much time doing the things we already do.

The main reason I've tried rFactor recently is because I've been spending hours per week on Finance and Admin with no fun from the racing in return.

 

I would be really interested to hear from any current, past or future member who would be willing to help with promoting ukdirt along the lines discussed in the various threads recently.

 

 

[Budge313]

An option would be to remove the joining fee and allow registered members access to practice sessions for 2 weeks before they pay anything. There would need to be practice sessions for this to work.

All General Admin and 2nd Tier Admin would have to be happy to take on the extra hassle associated with this but it would probably help with new members.

 

Id be interested to know the views of the admin team members on these proposals as considering the original post was put up almost a week ago the official response has been underwhelming.Can an official response on the proposed "taster" sessions or "open weekends" be expected or are admin happy with the current number of 15 die-hards who turn up week in & week out to continue?. I feel that admin have a role to play in fostering a community feel & in promoting the mod's future, & whilst I dont totally agree with Mav's comments on elitism there is clearly work to be done in welcoming new people who want to try the mod out. Without an official response we are left to speculate on what those who run the mod really want & that can often be totally wide of the mark.C'mon admin, people are offering their time & expertise with set-ups here, do you want the help or not??

 

Firstly great post MAV

 

I'm 2nd tier admin, what we really want, everything to run smoothly, no complaints, driving standards to improve, and mostly everyone to be happy and enjoy themselves!!!! don't think you realize how much work Drum and dave put into running the 2's mod, they spend hours and hours sorting out things behind the scene's along with gary, tom and spike sorting the meeting and posters out, i stick my oar in with complaints, So please think before shooting admin down about the role we have to play,

Of course we what more people and no 15 die hards isn't enough, please put up some constructive things on this post so we can put them all in the pot and sort this all out,

 

As for practice... In heat days someone would post on a sunday a time they would be there in the server that evening and people would just come along and join in though out the evening, no one seems to do that these days, i stayed after the meeting on monday but within 5 minutes of it finishing everyone had gone and i just blasted around all alone, 1 thing i would say is that the track needs to be changed to the following weeks meeting, that's where the practice is needed and not the track we have just raced.

 

I'd give up a sunday evening when i could,(Believe me i have given up hours and hours (days) in heat days helping new comers) But as a poor excuse of a white top in rfactor wouldn't be much help, but i'd be there and try and give advice if i could.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Budge313

[Lee]

I'm trying to organise a General Admin AGM to discuss how we move some of these forward.

Bit of a random idea, but can a drivers agm style meeting be had every now and then for a hour or two in mirc one evening? That way you can try cover all bases from past/present racers and possible future ones?

 

Will make another post in the morning regarding the other points, but this sprang into my mind fairly sharpish.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Lee

[Matty300]

So please think before shooting admin down about the role we have to play

 

Nobody I can see on this thread are "shooting admin down" Budge, there are some positive and constructive thoughts about developing & improving the F1 mod. Lets not lose sight of the basic facts which prompted my initial post .Its straightforward. 14 drivers turned up to race last week at Skegness. If thats enough for most registered F1 drivers & for admin then fine no problem. If other drivers would prefer an alternative to quick turnaround meetings, with no practice, no banter & no set-up exchange, & would like mixed formula meetings & an alternative to the all -in format, then fine again here, ill still turn up as I love the mod & love competing. I fully appreciate the admin role is difficult & the actual f1 meetings themselves are well run, as evidenced by the quick turnaround, but lets have a healthy, respectful discussion about this & let everyone have their say without resorting to bitching & flaming others & their views. I was making the point that Counter552 aside no-one from 1st tier admin had made any contribution to my post, & given that they make the decisions on how it is run one can only speculate on the mods future.

 

[Mav]

My comments earlier were about F1's, as I found F2's ok to drive, it was just the abuse from top drivers that got to me in these, similar to Kendo's experience.

 

Admin do work hard behind the scenes and until you have been Admin, you cannot appreciate what does go on.

They will not be sitting back letting it all happen, they will be working hard to try and make things run smoother EVERY day of the week, but if the drivers don't do their bit, what chance have the Admin's got??

 

Idea's

 

1) Practice servers should be set up ready the evening before the meeting ie Sunday for F2's and Wednesday for F1's. I often went to practice and the server wasn't up. Also how to change track whilst in the server, as sometimes its not set correctly.

2) Scrap the "Champions League" - it is not a good advertisement for the league - If it is to be run then run it pre-meeting (More details below), but keep it out of the leagues running as it just gives the impression that to be in this league you need to be a very good driver. As Trav suggested when it came about, what about the other drivers lower than red?? Yes you have a "Whites & Yellows" Championship, but in reality thats the only Championship they can go for, plus the fact that if they are too good for those grades and get to blue, then they are out of that Championship and into what - the forgotten grade - Blue. With running the "Champions League" it shows the league to be more concerned with the top end of drivers.

3) Teamspeak - This should be banned too, but I guess that is very hard to ban as its outside of the leagues control. Reason for this is that it can be used to "Fix" races. I am NOT saying that this happens as I have no proof that it does (although I am convinced that it was used to remove me from a race last year), but communication between drivers and spectators whilst the race is in progress is not fair for those who don't have it and can have a bearing of the outcome of the race. It also creates groups of people within UK Dirt, promoting "Team Racing", rather than a full community of individuals, all UK Dirt together.

4)Pre-Meeting Structure - Two Servers to be used - One accommodating Whites, Yellows and low Blues, the other top Blues, Reds and Superstars. At 8:15pm, each Server hosts a 5 minute practice session, followed by one race in graded order, followed by another 5 minute practice session. This way lower graders can use their setups they have achieved earlier in the day in open track (ie no bully reds ) then have a test race to see how it handles in race conditions followed by a free for all 5 minute session before the meeting actually starts. The reds etc could have their Champions League race at this point, rather than practice as in essence they really dont need to practice. All to Mirc chat at 8:30pm.

5) Jonnyboy did a breakdown of what each component did on a "Heat" car, although not detailed it did help you gain an idea of what each part affected with possible solutions. Adding an "Rfactor Setup" guide on UK Dirts Website for reference would help new drivers or struggling drivers to tweak and play with setups. I could spend hours testing a car but although I changed bits, it still drove the same to me. Now if I was advised "Lowering your brake bias allows your car to go loose entering a bend" I would know what to look out for and adjust accordingly.

6) New Drivers : They should be allowed to have two weeks free access to the server, which entitles them to practice sessions plus pre-meeting races (As stated above) - They will not be allowed to take part in the race meeting until they have paid, although they can spectate.

This would allow them the freedom to try out UK Dirt, without the pressure of gridding, rolling and generally getting in the way from the word GO. They can see how a race works in the pre meeting race, also practice with people of their standard then watch how a meeting works before being unleashed to the red lions. If everyone welcomed them, guided them then they are more likely to feel wanted and part of the group immediately rather than "your warping, sod off and sort it" or "Your crap go to learn to drive before you come back". If they have got a wheel, bought rFactor, and generally been welcomed by giving them a chance at their level, then after two weeks they are more likely to pay up and race than walk away from it. First impressions and all that.

7) Driver Etiquet- If the above happens and new drivers watch for two weeks/meetings then current drivers have to clean up their act and stop abusing other drivers. As Big Al has said drivers who are seen to be abusing other drivers should face a disciplinary - even if they don't swear. It not a good impression if new drivers see a racing incident in a race then have to endure the verbal abuse afterwards on their screen. I wasn't happy to see swear words used when Simon was present. Yes he knows the words, but he doesn't need to see them or read them. Most often if drivers just let it go for the meeting, and watch the replay afterwards, things are not what they first seemed. Occassionally it is driver stupidity that caused it, but not all the time - so check before you shout!! Note to Editor - Heed your own words!!!

8) Race Meetings Structure - In order to get away from the "loneliness" of the way rFactor runs, I would like to propose that a rigid structure be imposed to create discipline and minimise truancy!! Everybody assembles in Mirc Chat. First race is called with a designated Steward (who maybe racing that heat too). Once people arrive in the server NO-ONE is permitted to start up their cars and go to the track to practice or race around the pits. This should have been all done pre-meeting. Once the steward arrives he sets the server to a 3 minute warmup. Drivers can chat but NO-ONE strikes up their cars. If they do they are disqualified. It also gives them time to get a drink, go pee etc. Once the warm-up finishes, I believe the server goes automatically to the race. If drivers are not present at that point they miss the race. Once on track the race continues as normal. If it is an all in meeting, then no cars to be struck up during each race turn around. This allows chat to be had and hopefully good banter to be observed by one and all, plus allows the Race Manager to catch breath without it all kicking off in the background.

 

Somebody said that rFactor was a race sim game meaning it was to feel like real life - If that is so, then what happens in real life should be possible in rFactor. For example - Lower graders spinning causing pile-ups, reds spinning other reds by taking their back ends, drivers flying off the infield collecting a car on track, deliberate fencings (Punished by the steward and racing board mind!), whites driving the race of their lives to finish in top three, reds/superstars getting it wrong and having to work very hard to get back into the race etc etc etc - Are all those things what we go to spectate for, and what makes Stock Car Racing what it is???

 

So if it happens in real life, why is it cursed so much in rfactor ??? I started to accept incidents on track that lost me time and places, I cursed to myself or mentioned it at real meetings but didn't abuse people on screen there and then. Take this abuse away then I think more drivers will turn up and race. No one is immune from it, even in real life. Be all and end all is "If you have a problem with it - Talk to Admin".

 

Hopefully you will have read this as constructive rather than critisism, and its purely my opinion & ideas as a lower grade driver (I cant comment as a top driver), of which I am sure some of you will not agree with, and I do accept that.

If we all agreed on everything we wouldn't be having these discussions would we!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Waqar]

I am a new to rfactor and have enjoyed everybit of the on line racing. I am still learning and have a long way to go. Everybody has been really helpful posting set ups and telling me what to do with good advice . I think that on the home page you need to make an easier link to access the uk dirt website. this will encourage more drivers. Have a page with how to setup your computer and car. What equipment you need i still drive on a pad and at the min is not worth me purchising a wheel because i dont know if it would make any improvment to my driving( probably would).

 

I enjoy the banter onin the chat. Everydriver is really helpfull even if you do get some big hits from the big boys but hey thats stock car racing so deal with it and get on. i enjoy the practcing online.

 

Ragrding the setup of the computer i have everything downloaded and stored on my computer is this a good thing or should i just download each thing before i race.

 

But hey i just enjoy the experience and look foward to everyrace each monday and thursday.

 

 

Best regards Waqar199

[drumbstick]

Now I feel like I am picking on you Mav ans I am not honest, but a couple of quick points.

 

2.) A Blues and red series was started last week, if these were called premier league, championship and Div 1(Oh the days when it was Div 1 to 4) I could see your point but everyone is catered for and gets an extra race.

 

3.) Instead of banning it why not embrace it and have an open UKDirt team speak, then even people who don't have a mic can listen in and it may disperse some of the conspiracy theories.

 

5.) I did write a guide, it was on the old site not sure what has happened to it.

 

 

[Mav]

Now I feel like I am picking on you Mav ans I am not honest, but a couple of quick points.

 

2.) A Blues and red series was started last week, if these were called premier league, championship and Div 1(Oh the days when it was Div 1 to 4) I could see your point but everyone is catered for and gets an extra race.

 

3.) Instead of banning it why not embrace it and have an open UKDirt team speak, then even people who don't have a mic can listen in and it may disperse some of the conspiracy theories.

 

5.) I did write a guide, it was on the old site not sure what has happened to it.

 

I don't think you are picking on me m8, If I thought that I wouldn't post!! If what I write raises reasonable questions, then it has served its purpose but whatever I post is from what I know and feel, but if I am uneducated about things then yes I need to be enlightened and shown an alternate way, how else do we learn?? Sounds very religious doesn't it! lol

 

2) The "Blues and Reds" series was started after Trav queried it, I believe. But in principle I do not like "Series" unless it involves everyone ie Thunder Series. Only exception is "Whites & Yellows" as it gives these drivers something to fight for, and it is possible for a red top to drop to yellow and partake, so it is in theory (not in practice) open to everyone. Unity not segregation.

 

3) To be very honest, I know nothing about the workings of "Team Speak", I just know it exists. I assumed wrongly then that it was just for a closed group and didn't know that it can be open to anyone to have. In that case my "Ban" request is probably over the top, but if it can be open to everyone, then it should be an addition offered openly on the website.

 

5) Be good to have it back then Drum - Get finding!!!