ALi P Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Point taken Crewe, I appreciate that both F1 heat and RF have a suggestion thread, but as you can see the statement released by admin has prompted much debate, imo quite rightly so, and as such is currently far, far more important at this moment in time than ideas for the season. BTW, I am sure we all appreciate the work that admin do behind the scenes on our behalf, I certainly do, but as the majority of people on here are voicing some concerns relating to the plans for the F1 season, be it heat or RF, it will be prudent for admin to have a re think re the items justifiably raised by the members, it is only ethical and right to do so. ALi P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruiz 136 Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) Point taken Crewe, I appreciate that both F1 heat and RF have a suggestion thread, but as you can see the statement released by admin has prompted much debate, imo quite rightly so, and as such is currently far, far more important at this moment in time than ideas for the season. BTW, I am sure we all appreciate the work that admin do behind the scenes on our behalf, I certainly do, but as the majority of people on here are voicing some concerns relating to the plans for the F1 season, be it heat or RF, it will be prudent for admin to have a re think re the items justifiably raised by the members, it is only ethical and right to do so. ALi P Yes, and we have been, but it seems only 5 or 6 people are unhappy with it. Therefore there are about 30 - 50 members who are ok with it? We are trying to please the majority, even if they choose to be silent at this stage. Edited February 2, 2008 by Kruiz 136 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALi P Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Kruiz First of all can you please note that I haven't followed the bad manners being displayed through this thread by some by cutting and pasting a quote, and then starting a reply without including the name of the person you are responding to, that is very impolite, and demeaning, when in fact we are all equal. Thank you for helping me with the figures of drivers who have an issue with the plan for running F1 heat and RF on the same evening at staggered times, you say it is only 5 or 6, I must have mis-counted, as I thought I read 9 individual posts refering to issues with this. I honestly have no axe to grind with any of the admin team, indeed, I have been known to get on quite well both on and off track with some, but I really do struggle to understand the problem with discussing and allowing the people who race the opportunity to genuinely have an input to something as drastic a suggestion as this. Please do not try to play this point down, it is important. Can you help clear up one point for me, when you say that only 5-6 drivers have a problem, but a large number of drivers have not, how do you really know this? Are you saying that those drivers were asked in their survey whether they were happy to race 7.30/9.00 on alternative weeks, because I didnt see that question on my survey. Of course, I know the answer to that question, at least I hope I do, so if I am correct what you are saying is that you are counting up via this thread "for and against" and justifying it in that manner?, sounds very much like a kangeroo court survey to me if so, why not bite the bullet and do it correctly, is it really too much to ask? BTW, as a footnote to our admin members that have communicated via this thread, thank you for responding, at least you have the courage of your convictions. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz215 Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) you know the best way to see how this will go start your leagues as discussed and see what kind of a turn out you get end of from a personal note r factor F1 needs far too much time to work on setups of which i don't have i'm afraid so it will be heat for me and as has been suggested earlier if heat goes then that'll be me out too unless circumstances change Thx Fritz Edited February 2, 2008 by Fritz215 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big al 515 Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 A lot of people would have been very unhappy if we had dropped HEAT or RFactor from our 2008 season plans, that was made clear by the survey which showed relatively few would continue to race if the "other" mod was the one of choice - hence a compromise for one season was needed which included both mods. Regarding the survey, the more questions you ask, the harder it is to make sense of the responses, hence the survey was kept relatively simple. Whichever compromise was organised would not suit some, we are using the one we think will be fairest to the most people. Like Fritz says, the best way to find if it works is to wait until the season starts and get on with it. I know I won't be able to race all meetings and I guess a lot won't, but we should all be able to get enough meetings to make it worthwhile and it is only for the one season. It is almost certain things will have moved on again for 2009 one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Beef Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Fritz I found the heat set ups far harder than rfactor. When I raced F2 I was always 1 to 3 seconds a lap slower and no matter what I did I just could not make my set ups any quicker. With rfactor I made a basic set up from drumbs guide so that I can get round the tracks without spinning and have adjusted that set up for every track I have raced on and although I will never be the quickest I am running 3 to 5 tenths slower on most tracks which is a vast improvement on heat. Yes that first set up does take some time but after that it can be adapted a lot easier for other tracks, but this is only my opinion. Give it a try you might come to enjoy it. Mr Beef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruiz 136 Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Sorry Alip I didn't mean to be impolite. Big Al has it pretty much covered there, it is a compromise for one season, with the most common sense solution. It allows people who only race Heat to try rFactor aswell if they wish and still carry on with heat in the meantime or vice versa. Nobody would try the other mod if we were to have them clashing at 8.30. Running on Sundays is not very ideal as I, and others I'm certain, would miss at least 50% of the season due to being at real life events or race meetings as the majority of us on here have a common interest in Short Oval Racing. We don't want to run it on other weekdays as that would interfere with other UKDirt mods and that is not in the best interest of UKDirt as a whole. Whatever decision we were to make we will always end up upsetting some people, but we went with a compromise of running both F1 mods on the same day to try and keep as many members as possible happy and hopefully it will prove to be a success and we have a great years racing. Nobody will really know for sure until we have tried it. With regards to what Mr Beef said, rFactor setups are not actually very difficult when you know what you are doing. Once you have one base setup that works for each surface, just use that set-up for every other track of the same surface with minor changes. I just tried my Ipswich set-up at Brimingham with only tweaking the gears and was lapping .1 slower than my 'purpose made' Birmingham set up. Its really more how you drive it that makes the difference and possibly needs more time adjusting. If you read Drumb's tutorial and watch his video, you will be within half a second of the pace in less than 2 hours. It worked for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendo912 Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I feel quite sorry for the F1 admin team regarding this but in addition, as an admin member for a different mod to which is being moddled for rFactor then it's quite a daunting time given the negativity of some. The admin team as a whole were faced with a very difficult decision about the options available to the F1's for 2008, and as most posts on this thread show, no option would be suitable for everyone. IMO, 2008 will be a transistional year for the F1's but rFactor is the future and we cannot ignore the fact the at some point in that future, HEAT will probably not run online either at all or without huge warp issues to which we all saw at some point last year. In an effort to please as many people as possible and also to reduce the "which mod races at what time" debate then it seemed the sensible thing to do to have a rotating start time. Once again, it won't please everyone but it does came back to the no option would be suitable for everyone scenario. It's no secret that i'm not the biggest lover of rFactor but i'd urge everyone to give the F1 season 2008 a go be it whichever you want to race in-that's the whole point in what the admin teams have done in this case - the options are there for people to race. If you can't make it because of work or other commitments then unfortunately so be it . The admin members who have made this decision won't always be able to race, something that we shouldn't forget either, but they've tried to make the best out of the situation given a very even result in the recent poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scrapman53 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Get the rFactor mod on at 9.00pm. It's mostly adults that race it anyway! The reason you're getting warp on Heat mods is because of the selfish gits on wireless connections! It doesn't work, so why try it? I see admin peeps moaning about Sunday nights hear due to real meetings taking place. How many SSC meetings were cancelled/ moved to let any Scottish fans go to Knockhill on a Wednesday? The only sensible time for rFactor F1s IMO is 9pm on a Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzer Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Here goes, whilst I dont race, the odd meeting is on my radar for this and future years and as the rfactor mod is a challenge to the established mods it no way should have equal status, so until it becomes more established by the quality of racing and sufficient numbers turning up I reckon a suitable option might be sunday night as is at present or after the legends on a Friday night (possibly moving the start time earlier). Surely not ALL admin members go racing every week that no one can rm etc, it seems a bit selfish not to run on a sunday because the admin want to go racing, (the same problem used to exsist a while back in the tooz when their was a bank holiday) as someone said earlier , its all about choices, if they dont or cant do it let someone in who can do it. This compromise means that all mods would run closer to their current times, just something worth considering! Alb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scrapman53 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Or if any of you admin guys can't make it on a Sunday night, I'm sure someone will be willing to fill your boots. (Should've put this on the application form?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendo912 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 With all due respect Scrapman I think most of the the points you are making are pointless. The time the later meeting will finish won't be much later than UKDIRT generally has been finishing over the past few years anyway so it doesn't really matter which one finishes at 10.30pm. It's not about admin members who go to real life racing - in fact it wasn't even discussed in any way about which admin members will be about and who won't be. It was felt that the majority or certainly a good percentage of RACERS irrespective of their status or role wouldn't be able to race on a sunday when the real life season's begin - not exactly giving the racers of the league the best choice is it? Sorry guys, as i said in my earlier post, NO option is ideal - the option that will be used is one that the admin team feel will give as many people the option of racing in one or both mods should they choose and that means an alternating start time each Thursday for fairness to each mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 why not just have a open meetin in mirc one nite thursday @ 8.30 and then anyone can say something or nothing and see what the poeple that race f1 heat/rfactor really feel about the it. mayb have it like a agm like real life does and have alist of points to bring up,its the only way i can see anything happenin and end of the day its the peoples league so lets have a agm!! ps if it takes a few meeting then so be it imo,open them closed doors of admin this is 2008 man and not the cold war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big al 515 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Open house chat debates between loads of peeps doesn't work Pedz, it will just lead to antagonism between opposing views and nothing decided, there's no way that would help in the slightest. To be honest, there aren't anything like enough opposing views being offered to make Admin feel what's been decided isn't a goer, at least to see how it goes early season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 i been with ukdirt for sometime and never never had a open meeting chat,so u only think it would be a gd idea as alot of members just got with the flow which isnt the best as someones small idea may resolve a larger issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big al 515 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 i been with ukdirt for sometime and never never had a open meeting chat,so u only think it would be a gd idea as alot of members just got with the flow which isnt the best as someones small idea may resolve a larger issue. Never never had one because they are a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 away and poo will u!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big al 515 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Yep that is the sort of stuff you would get in such a chat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 and ? its a members league is it not so why cant we have a meeting. time for change imo out with the old in with the new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big al 515 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 On second thoughts, I'll keep your Open Chat idea for the next time someone lap downs out the car about to win the World Title on the last corner, that would make an interesting discussion and I guess those types of expressions and better would be flying around aplenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno3 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Pedz, I am afraid to say there will not an 'open house meeting' or an 'agm' that is run by admin members. Big Al is absolutely spot on. You get forty people all in chat, that all have a opinion, all typing away at the same time and we are going to get no where. Its bad enough when we have an admin meeting, and that has generally no more than 10 people. I always encourage people to voice their opinions, and have no problem with them voicing their opinions as long as it is in a constructive manner. But the place for memebrs to do this is the forum, and not a chat 'open houese meeting' or 'agm'. I would appreciate if you would stop posting about the topic of some sort of chat meeting now and leave it purely down to talking about the statement. Cheers Johno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALi P Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Cheers for reply Kruiz, and for explanation how this decision has been arrived at. My intention is to change the record now, I have had my opinion, some of admin have had the graciousness to explain how the decision has been arrived at, even though I absolutley cannot agree that the small survey undertaken has then produced this result. Big Al, in my line of work I have to work with staff to offer alternatives and compromises that will hopefully provide a win - win for both the company and the staff, I must have asked them their opinion on a particular subject to be able to decide a fundemental aspect of the decision. For heavens sake this is our hobby, our release from work and other issues, for some it is a major highlight of the week, it really would be the right thing to have been fully consulted on these "compromises" that admin have decided on our behalf without those actual questions having been asked of us,........ is it me? I am really going to have to lie down now, as I find myself agreeing with Pedz (of all people! ), re the mirc evening, something am I sure Danskin will confirm I asked for in my rather long survey return back in November, with a set of meeting rules, and a chairman to police it, it does have its merits, ah well.. Now..........where are those suggestion threads? Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedz 212 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I am really going to have to lie down now, as I find myself agreeing with Pedz Ali just have a beer or two with feet up @ pc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno3 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 (edited) I am really going to have to lie down now, as I find myself agreeing with Pedz (of all people! ), re the mirc evening, something am I sure Danskin will confirm I asked for in my rather long survey return back in November, with a set of meeting rules, and a chairman to police it, it does have its merits, ah well.. AliP, If I honestly thought it was a good idea then I would suggest it too the admin team. But you are seriously going to have to take my word for it (although I am sure a lot of admin members will say the same as me), but a chat meeting would not work. On my time on Admin, we have had 3 meetings, and everytime a major issue came up (for example we had a huge debate about a possible national series last year), we could not decide. Everyone had a different take on it and the meeting went on forever without giving a conclusion. In the end we came up with the conclusion not too run one on our admin forum. That was with 7/8 members, could you imagine if 60 odd (which was roughly the nuber that voted by the way) turned up and each wanted to chat and debate an issue, we would never get anything sorted. On here everyones opinion can be seen and read in their own time. Part of the reason I have not replied to this thread often is that the team, both the f1 admin team and the Head Admin members have done a great job of explaining how we came to this decision. It was not an easy decision, and believe you me we discussed the pros and cons of every option that people have suggested on here. So with this is mind, I urge people to start thinking how you think we can make this work and make this a good season. Yes I know the people that have answered on here don't particularly want it running the way we have come up with, but how about trying to make suggestions or iniatives that may help you to get a least a little something out of f1 rather than just packing it in all together. We are already making sure that the world qualifying rounds are split evenly between start times. We are going to make the World Final and the British Championships solus meetings starting at the normal 8:30 start time that we are acustomed too. There has been a suggestion of the national series being run on the Heat suggestion thread. I have an idea of something like a target 20 series (not quite sure on the full details yet to post to the admin team) that was proposed in real life a couple of seasons ago. So does anyone else have any iniciatives that could help? Please post in the suggestion thread. Finally, in an ideal world, both mods would have there own day, but that is just not possible. Believe me, if I could make it a 8 day week I would, purposely so that we can have a day for 1 of the two mods. Johno Edited February 3, 2008 by Johno3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALi P Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Thanks Johno, good stuff, and tbh we are now getting the type of information that should have been released initially, perhaps in the form of a survey result rather than giving us the plan for the season without any basis or substance provided. For example we have now been advised that 60 drivers voted, or took part in the survey, first time this has been indicated, in my mind I was picturing much lower than that, thus felt that it was being railroaded through for other reasons. If you dont provide detail human nature is to make things up to fit, either through concern, or out of malice. I can understand to a certain extent the reason for suppressing information, as that can give ammunition to some, sometimes, and certainly in our case, I believe it would have helped, rather than hindered. I believe that advising us of this sort of information would have helped admin set the scene, paint the picture, and support the decision taken, rather than the "cart before the horse" as we currently have. Thanks again. ps, 8 days a week?, you could do an extra shift down the chippy elvis!! Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno3 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 (edited) ps, 8 days a week?, you could do an extra shift down the chippy elvis!! Ali I would happily work another shift on the eighth day. I have a shiny new computer here and not sure how I am going to pay for it!! I am pleased you feel that the information I have given you has helped you understand the decision we made more. Can I just say, feel free to PM and ask any questions you wish, and I will always try to give you an honest and frank answer. I would like to think I am quite approachable, and I will always reply to any PM that someone sends me. Cheers Johno Edited February 3, 2008 by Johno3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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