Car Feedback

[AndyG]

Terrific job on the Elite, great detail and yet still performs well. Only tiny comment I have is a bug report - the external steering wheel appears in the rear view:

 

[attachmentid=17840]

 

(BTW I'm assuming you want feedback on the beta, and in this forum is a good place - if not please don't hesitate to say and I'll shut up.)

[freew67]

Im sure I can speak for the group, that we appreciate the feedback. This is our first mod release for RF, and we were bound to miss some small things here and there no matter how much we tested. Hence, why its a beta, we know we still have some room for improvement. We released the beta for folks to get used to the cars, and then to see if any major catastrophic problems would pop up. Grasser just gets to add that to the things to do list for the next version...

[Grasser233]

I use the rear view quite a bit really and Ive never seen it do that. What view are you in when you press the rear view button? (swingman, Cockpit etc)

 

 

[AndyG]

Good point - I'm using "TV Cockpit".

[AndyG]

Good point - I'm using "TV Cockpit".

Most odd - this only happens if I have the "Wheel" option at "Off". Fixed or On is ok. So this might well be a code bug that you can't fix.

[Hutch#331]

i drive on bonnet view and if i use look back i can see the wheel sometimes, it's only now and again the wheel apears but it isn't of that much a problem to worry about for me

[Dragon 428]

Ok here is my first impression about the cars.

First of all a big well done to all involved in what appears to have the ingredients in becoming a great mod.

- The car detail is very good although from a racing point of view, this is not what is on top of my wish list when I race a game, I just want that the feeling of the car is good (but that’s personal preference). I have always had my graphics turned down so detail is the last thing I need. I have to say though that it’s a nice touch and makes it all look so much better. Especially when you remember them good old DTRSC F1 stockcars (evolution has gone quick eh AndyG, lol)

- After reading the comments about the must to race this game with a wheel I think I can safely say that with a few tweaks here and there the cars can be raced with keys as well. I have raced the tarmac car at the weekend and spend some time on the set-up but nothing special.

- Top work with the numbers and figures used in the garage mode, it’s like the real deal. The one thing I found missing was cross weight % and the weight distribution on each corner (how much kgs at each point). I think this would make setting the car up even a little easier. I can understand though that this option might not be available in rFactor.

- I also like the way the set-up is very limited in contrary to Nascar Heat. The tweaks you can do are little (no 0 to 1000 and somewhere in between is the right number but 0-20). I am sure that this will benefit the competitively with on-line racing as it will come down more to race craft.

- The set-up is sensitive and the suspension settings have an immediate effect to its handling. Other settings have hardly an effect when you turn them from one end to the extreme other end (at least that’s the idea I am having when I tried it). For instance the “toe in” option I hardly feel a difference when this is set to -1, 0 and 1.

- I am not impressed with the braking from the car though. It is very hard to find the right braking point and get the idea that you’ll have to brake too early to make it through the bend in a good way. Just after the halfway point from the straight I’ll need to stamp the brakes and keep them on until I am into the bend. It might have to do with my personal settings but I don’t have the “feel” that I am breaking hard. It looks more that the car is pushing on and seems to slow down very slowly. I tried several settings but the effect was all the same.

- Having not raced on-line I can’t tell how the car handles when it gets hit or gives out a hit. I have raced with the AI though and the car felt a little weird when you hit other cars. I don’t have the “feel” when I hit a car but this might be down to the combination of braking and hitting.

- I am using the view behind the car and find this one a little too far away from the car. I know you can alter it by zooming in and all is set ok. But the game doesn’t remember the view you have picked and when you restart the game you’ll need to adjust to this view. I can imagine when you are on a race night it’s not the best thing to do when the cars are rolling on the grid. Plus, you’ll never get the exact same view when you manually zoom in, you’ll get close and it’ll be ok but it won’t be exactly the same.

 

The above is my first impression from the Tarmac car and I’ll do some testing with the shale car once I understand the set-up a little more and am able to control it properly. At the moment Kylie Minoque is doing her thing when I am racing on the shale track :-)

The above points are in no way criticism towards its builders but are meant as feedback, just like the topic says.

 

Dragon

[Hutch#331]

shale cars handle spot on, sideways action loads of fun had a graet time in them, wouldn't change them one bit

 

the tar cars for me seem to lack a bit of grip front end , the front end pushes on too much, a bit of grip turning in wouldn't go a miss instead of having to use the brakes to turn it in

 

on contact, there pretty good when pings are low, the only fault i found is if you try and push whilst sliding around the corners it tends to make the car spin out too easy, other than that its fine

 

good work chaps

[Guest Scrapman53]

Just a point here. But these cars in real life have over 600bhp and weigh a ton and a half. I would think they would be pretty hard to get into a bend without pushing on, unlike say a national Hotrod which is around 235ish bhp and weigh 700 Kilos.

[martin379]

Sorry if this is a silly question but how do you zoom in on the view manually when you have the view that shows the rear end of the car?

 

Martin

[Tosh924]

Sorry if this is a silly question but how do you zoom in on the view manually when you have the view that shows the rear end of the car?

 

Martin

 

 

use the swingman buttons, you have to set it to a key or button to use it. its all where you adjust your throttle and steering rates.

 

 

[Guest Scrapman53]

The default zoom etc keys are on the number pad.

[Mart 870]

Just a point here. But these cars in real life have over 600bhp and weigh a ton and a half. I would think they would be pretty hard to get into a bend without pushing on, unlike say a national Hotrod which is around 235ish bhp and weigh 700 Kilos.

 

From what i was told at the weekend by Mark Helliwell on his first outing in his f1, compared to the f2 the brakes arent as good but the car turned fine and would hold a line no problem. To me (ive never driven an f1 so i cant really tell!) the car does push on too bad and feels like it doesnt have enough damping.

 

 

Having said that the shale racing is spot on, once i dialed in a bit of wedge to stop it spinning round so easily i loved it!

[Guest Scrapman53]

Well it doesn't push on too bad for me unless I brake too late. I noticed you pushed on quite bad when you were at the back of me once or twice though

[drumbstick]

Well after spending far to long playing this over the last week here goes

 

Physics

 

Very good, the shale cars are quickest when they are in a controlled slide and the set-up options give you the options to change it to suit your driving style. The Tarmac cars are also very close to what I would expect I actually have the opposite problems to what most people have posted, I keep locking the inside front and once the tyres are up to temp it wants to slide the back not the front.

 

Both cars work well with Real Feel and when you get the weight in the right place you can really tell. The setup ranges seem to be good you can adjust the car to your style without there being an endless chance to tweak and tweak. The only criticism I have is that the Tarmac car seems to use its tyres very hard, even when it is not sliding.

 

Models

 

Again seem to be very good, cockpits are done well, and the external models are very very good. Two suggestions here thought

 

1.) I like the fact that the wireframe from Max is in the template but it is possible to put this in a layer on its own as it would make it much easier to use.

 

2.) The tyres look like they are running just below the Tarmac, this is caused by the size in the .TBC and the model size being different not really a problem just something I noticed in the pics.

 

Collision detection

 

Again seems to work well, you can just run someone on without having to wreck them and as long as people have the correct attitude it produces some really good racing. You can still end up on your side if you get hit hard enough but no more flying as in heat

 

Good job guys cannot wait to try some more chassis

[Mart 870]

Well it doesn't push on too bad for me unless I brake too late. I noticed you pushed on quite bad when you were at the back of me once or twice though

 

Yeah i must admit on all mods i play (including the real thing when i get the chance) when theres a car infront of me the car tends to push somewhat lol

[DaveW329]

Well it doesn't push on too bad for me unless I brake too late. I noticed you pushed on quite bad when you were at the back of me once or twice though

 

Yeah i must admit on all mods i play (including the real thing when i get the chance) when theres a car infront of me the car tends to push somewhat lol

 

 

Can actually vouch for this aswell

[Nezza46]

ok guys, went over kendo's last night to play rfactor for the first time and these are my thoughts. before i go any further i am not trying to wind anyone up or start an argument as i know a lot of hard work has gone into this. however,

 

after playing this mod last night i couldnt find any enjoyment out of it and i found myself having to walk away a few times to have a fag before coming back lol. i personally think its just that little bit too hard to drive tbh. i appreciate they are 600 bhp etc. but this is not how i imagine them to drive in real life. i watch the real f1's and they dont seem to be all over the track and spinning out every 5 laps or so. if anyone reading this has driven a real life one then feel free to post up and tell me this how they are tbf.

 

shale looks good exept it looks a bit like an f1 'hovercraft' going round the way it glides rather than slides and i find the tar driving way to slidy.

 

i also find it unrealistic that when 2 cars hit each other then both cars just spin round which i dont see happening in real life. again post up real life drivers if im wrong.

 

at the end of the day i couldnt drive the cars as they are just not grippy enough for me which took the enjoyment out of the game for me. i personally hope that the grip levels can be increased and contact improved or when this game takes over heat then ukdirt will be at an end for myself.

 

sorry to sound negative but these are my negative opinions on the game. i did find a lot of positives as well like the online side of it, pits etc. so please dont take this as a slagging off of your hard work, but from my point of view (and i wonder how many others) i hope things can be changed to put some enjoyment into it for the people like me who arent quite the hardened gamers like a lot of you are.

 

cheers, nezza

[Kruiz 136]

I agree with what most people have said so far, my opinions are...

 

1) I too think that the F1's feel like they glide rather than slide, it doesn't seem to possible to floor it and slide at the same time as it is in real life, unless its just my setup.

 

2) The cars aern't that difficult to drive on tarmac, I'm sure, you rarely even see novices with less than perfect setups, contantly pushing into corners and spinning out half way round the corner then fighting to keep it in a relatively straight line down the straights.

 

3) The swingman view is too far away for me, it is the view I always use in every game online but I find it difficult to get on with in rF.

 

4) The model them selves look fantastic, I wouldn't change that at all.

 

5) I also like the idea of customisation which should add a little more variety to the field, just one thing though, could you add the option of superstar flashing lights to distinguish them from red tops, as in real life?

 

6) On the point of it spins out to easy when you push someone into the corner on shale, I can tell you from my dad (who raced F1 for 25 years) thinks that is spot on. It does handle like that if you push someone, especially while sliding.

 

Overall I do like it very much, this is are just constructive criticism, keep up the good work everyone., and if you want any more opinions from a driver (or an ex-driver anyway) then I'll ask my dad to have a go and see what he thinks.

 

Thanks

 

Kruiz

[drumbstick]

I agree with what most people have said so far, my opinions are...

 

1) I too think that the F1's feel like they glide rather than slide, it doesn't seem to possible to floor it and slide at the same time as it is in real life, unless its just my setup.

 

2) The cars aern't that difficult to drive on tarmac, I'm sure, you rarely even see novices with less than perfect setups, contantly pushing into corners and spinning out half way round the corner then fighting to keep it in a relatively straight line down the straights.

 

 

On dirt with a good setup you can just floor it and control the slide believe me, and I would guess 95% of your tar problems are also setup related, ask the people who were on wrightys server this week how much difference getting the setup correct can make.

 

[freew67]

I agree with what most people have said so far, my opinions are...

 

3) The swingman view is too far away for me, it is the view I always use in every game online but I find it difficult to get on with in rF.

Kruiz

 

Are you talking about when you hit page up? (I think that is default, Im at work so not sure) When you are behind the car looking down?

 

[Hutch#331]

 

@kruiz

 

the cars slide pretty good for me, maybe a lack of force feedback makes it feel like gliding if using no ff or a pad

 

thats more down to driver error, brake harder/sooner for the corner then you wont spin and struggle for grip on the way out

 

the swingman view can be adjusted closer or further out m8

 

if you don't have a steering wheel in pedals and use a game pad you will spin very easy, you can't just floor in the bends or you will spin, throttle control control plays a big part in rfactor unlike the f1 heat version

 

the spinging out could be solved if the steering lock could be set a tad higher, but then again it will only be of benifit if you use a wheel @ full lock

 

it takes a good bit of practice to get into this game, don't expect to be flying after a few try's

[Woka Snr]

I can understand the feelings of Kruiz and Nezza as I thought exactly the same thing when I first tried it. You finally get sort of decent at doing the Nascar Heat setups for F1, then you try R factor and you're a complete novice all over again, struggling to find a reasonable setup. I agree it seems to be a lot to do with the setup and also not using a steering wheel. I was thankful that a few of the lads sent me a basic setup but I was still seeming to be way of the pace, but seeing drivers like Scrapman occasionally getting wrong sort of gave me hope. Bit of tweaking here and there and I did improve a bit but still feel I'm at a great disadvantage using a gamepad, I will stick at it because I think all the work the lads have done to get this Mod in to Rfactor is well worth it. I think at the moment though without a steering wheel is always going to put you at least a couple of 10ths off the pace. Maybe there are some quick rFactor F1 drivers using gamepads? If so let us know to give us some hope.

[Kruiz 136]

ATM I'm using a PS2 control, so looks like I'll have to invest in a new Graphics card, steering wheel, anything else for my xmas list?

 

Seriously though, I will try it a bit more this weekend, I've only done about 2 hours worth so far and practise on Ipswich shle as i can't get it to slide around the corners there at all. At Sexbierum its as bad.

 

I know the swingman view can be adjusted, but like it has been said before becomes annoying having to adjust it before each race although, if that is default then there is nothing that can be done I suppose.

 

I have been using an analog stick for the acclerator but I find it easier using the X button on the PS2, but probably just because I'm not used to using the analog for acclerating in any other games.

 

Thanks for the replys lads,

 

Kruiz

[Dazza290]

I personally love this mod to bits.

 

I think the cars, tracks, handling, shale in your eyes are really really good.

 

I dont think the cars are to hard to control either, I appreciate peoples views in saying they are (hey I often spin out ) but I find that having to concentrate and 'feel' the car through the bends makes this game probably one of the best I have driven.

 

I've watched Hutch at Sexbierum, proper controlled sideways drifting whilst still going at a really quick speed, it is possible but I think a wheel is a must if you want proper full lock sideways action.

 

Both tarmac and shale are totally different which is really cool aswell.

 

Keep it going guys, looking forward to more tracks aswell, Ipswich Shale remains my favourite at the moment though

 

Dazza

[Dragon 428]

but I think a wheel is a must if you want proper full lock sideways action.

Still need to get in a server for some advice etc. But it's a little diappointing that you'll need a wheel to get the proper controll from this game. That rules those out that aint going to buy one.

 

[Dazza290]

I use a pad and still get loads of fun playing this mod, you make it what you want it to be after all.

 

You can still 'hang it out' with a pad just not from the start of the bend from my experience, I usually let the car drift half way around the bend under breaking and then boot it out in a big slide.

 

My fastest laps have been:

 

Ipswich Tar - 15.321

Ipswich Shale - 15.811

Sexbierum - 14.415

 

I had a few laps with HaaDee a couple days ago who was on keys and he wasnt a much slower then me 9not saying im quick) so maybe it is all in the driving and setup?

 

On a different note, on the player stats, when you look at the lap times, for Ipswich Tarmac it always knocks a second off of your fastest lap time. Is that the same for anythign else?

Edited August 25, 2007 by Dazza684

[Aub]

i used a pad i have just gone to a wheel now i was faster using a pad my times with a pad at sexybum were about 14.2 and round ippy on tar i did a 14.8 so it is possible to do it

[Kruiz 136]

i used a pad i have just gone to a wheel now i was faster using a pad my times with a pad at sexybum were about 14.2 and round ippy on tar i did a 14.8 so it is possible to do it

 

On the subject of throttle control, until I can get a steering wheel and a decent desk to put it on, I have changed the settings on PS2 control to steer with the left analog stick, acclerate with the right analog stick even though I'm not used to it, and brake with L2, so it is possible to brake & acclerate at the same time, and I find that easier than using the right analog stick to brake aswell. I have tweaked my setups a bit more today and I actually did about 10 fairly fast laps at sexy without spinning out lol.

[wrighty496]

On the subject of throttle control, until I can get a steering wheel and a decent desk to put it on, I have changed the settings on PS2 control to steer with the left analog stick, acclerate with the right analog stick even though I'm not used to it, and brake with L2, so it is possible to brake & acclerate at the same time, and I find that easier than using the right analog stick to brake aswell. I have tweaked my setups a bit more today and I actually did about 10 fairly fast laps at sexy without spinning out lol.

 

On the subject of throttle control, until I can get a steering wheel and a decent desk to put it on, I have changed the settings on PS2 control to steer with the left analog stick, acclerate with the right analog stick even though I'm not used to it, and brake with L2, so it is possible to brake & acclerate at the same time, and I find that easier than using the right analog stick to brake aswell. I have tweaked my setups a bit more today and I actually did about 10 fairly fast laps at sexy without spinning out lol.

 

good to hear Kruiz (and Dazza and Dragon and Aub and Nezza and Woka and Haadee <takes deep breath> lol) all involved here, as I think this was going to be as big a debate as the mod itself (i.e. how to drive it.....physically how to drive, not 'how do u get the car to go round').

The thing with the choice of controllers is, if you're a long-time wheel'n'pedals user then that's obviously gonna be your best control method.....its what you're used to and it gives you maximum 'feel' for the steering and the pedals and that's much more important here than it was in Heat. Having said that, I tried with a wheel for 3 months solid, after having been a long-time pad user (steering with the stick, throttle and brake on the buttons for Heat) tbh I couldn't get away with it and I ended up getting to the point where I was wondering whether I was wasting my time trying to race these at all. In the end, someone I hadn't raced with in a while commented that I was better with the pad and I just thought 'bugger it, he's right' and went back (and instantly gained time thankfully lol).

Kruiz (and any other analog pad users who may be interested), there are two ways to approach the throttle and brake control......one is to use the buttons and then change your digital rates in the 'settings' section in-game (where the garage section is) so the feed isnt on/off like the button is.......alternatively (this is what I went for in the end), try throttle and brake on the right-hand analog stick....again it takes a little bit of getting used to but I set this up with all sensitivities up full (so any touch on the stick is registered) and that's about my best control method currently. For keyboard users, the sensitivity settings are critical, as all of your controls are on/off (i.e. button depressed or not) so have a play with these as well. Bear in mind the versatility of the controller setup in RF is way deeper than we're used to.....you can have a slow feeding throttle with an instant brake, for instance.

In the end, you'll all know what kind of controller you prefer and unless you're personally happy that you can upgrade to a wheel setup and be instantly more comfortable with it, i'd think carefully....wheels aren't cheap and there's nowt like having a £100 dust collector next to your desk to p1ss you off when you're concentrating on a game .

For any of you who might like to try the 2-stick method, i've attached my pad setup with full sensi and nil deadzones.....if you feel you're tankslapping (wobbling down the straights trying to catch the steering all the time) add some steering deadzone, you may find that helps.

A final note on gamepads.......Welly pointed me towards =b2c_insert&cookie_v[1]=U9&cookie_d[1]=&cookie_p[1]=%2f&cookie_e[1]=Thu%2c+27-Sep-2007+09%3a14%3a47+GMT&cookie_n[2]=b2c_hk_cookie&cookie_v[2]=WW1&cookie_d[2]=&cookie_p[2]=%2f&cookie_e[2]=Thu%2c+27-Sep-2007+09%3a14%3a47+GMT&scrwidth=1024]This one from Thrustmaster which has a pair of analog triggers under the front of the case, so you could steer on 1 stick, and have full long-stroke analog throttle and brake (and it's not badly priced, although UK stockists aren't that widespread).....again, it's what you're used to that'll suit you best, but if you'd prefer to be on a pad, that looks about the most versatile that I've seen.

 

@ Nezza, re: the grip level.......to an extent it depends which track you were on, but I find the grip and handling ok once you're used to it, but again, i can only repeat that Heat and RF are very different games and it'll take a while to get used to RF (the other thing to bear in mind is that the car's have grip data built in but so do the tracks, so the dirt tracks don't feel the same, hence a setup that slides nicely at sexb will still need tweaking at Ippy dirt, but hey all dirt tracks arent the same anyway ). I'll grant you it takes a lot of getting used to, and I'm not surprised that you couldn't get away with it instantly on someone elses pc....that comes back to all of the aforementioned controller settings etc too, but expect it to take nearer two months than two minutes to acclimatise....but when you do, and you start doing smooth tail-out laps, you'll feel good, honest

 

finally finally, for those of you using chase cam (as I do too, still), the cam position is done with the number keypad on your keyboard.....leave num lock on and then its 7 and 9 to zoom in and out, 8 and 2 to lift the camera up or bring it down and (i think) 4 and 6 to move the camera to either side.....if you go into your support folder in the rfactor folder, there's an 80-page users guide in there that explains all.

 

right, i'll get my coat in short, RF takes a load of setting up but it's honestly worth the effort

 

enjoy .......... Wrighty

 

ps - to install the attached controller setting, drop the file into your rfactor/userdata/controller folder, then in-game go to settings>controller and there's a click-thru list (usually shows A-Z keyboard as default)...scroll through the choices in there until you see 'pad-2208' and try that.

 

pad_2208.zip

Edited August 26, 2007 by wrighty496